The Past - A Failed Future?

[Rána Eressëa]

I've often wondered how different it would be for this world if it had already faced a failed future of advanced technology. What if long, long ago a past civilization had reached it's peak of the same technology we're trying to reach now and had a major world war which destroyed everything they created? All this "magic" we hear about in history from the mythological periods B.C. - what if it wasn't magic, but things lost from an old world that they couldn't explain? How do you think that would effect us today if some of that "lost world" surfaced?

Better yet, if our own world faces this someday, do you think the people of the far future would know what really happened? Or would they start from the beginning all over again, with their descendants believing it all to be just myths?

Really makes you wonder about history.

[Starr Polish]

Quantum foam...quantum foam.

RE, you might be interested in "Timeline" by Micheal Crichton (sp?). Or better yet, Harry Turtledove...I think that's his name. He writes alternative history stories, and they are incredible. He also touches on this issue you brought up specifically in one of his short stories, but I can't remember which one.

[markedel]

A Harry Turteldove fan! At last one of my fellow Freedom Party hating brethren!

Read a Canticle for leibowitz if you're up to it. That's excellent stuff that relates to the inevitability of history along with other cool stuff.

[BeardofPants]

I wonder about this stuff all the time. Or at least I used to when I still romanticised archaeology.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I wonder about this stuff all the time. Or at least I used to when I still romanticised archaeology.

Let me guess: You were thinking it was all Indiana Jones stuff, weren't you?

[BeardofPants]

Well, not quite. I hate wearing hats!

[Lizra]

I don't think we'll ever know! (and THEY probably won't either ) Who built that sphinx anyway!

[Ben]

Interesting. You could use this as an explanation for the astounding technological advances we've made in the past century: someone found "ancient" artifacts!

Turtledove's alternate history books are awesome . Terry Brooks's latest books have a similar premise: that our world went out in a nuclear holocaust and then the magic, fantasy world came into existence.

[Rána Eressëa]

Thanks for the tips, Starr. I began just thinking about this the other day after going over an unfinished story a friend of mine was working on. It takes place long after a great world war, and the people have become primitive again, but they began to surface from beneath the earth things like "singing" swords and "blinding" devices (powerful flashlights, BTW ) and it's all very interesting.

[Sween]

i oten wonder about this fact. If the wholse life spand of the dinosar race was condence into a day then the humans would be about foir about 10 seconds of that day.

If you believe the theory of evolution (let face who doesnt) why didnt the dinosars reach a level of advanced civilisation?

I believe the world will work in ages much like in tolkiens work. i can see a time comming when we will be the death of ourselves.

The best example of this is the roman empire (they had central heating people) i find them facinating how they were so advanced and clever and somehow it all got lost.

think if we could of carried on from them we would of conolised planets by now i think.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Sween
If you believe the theory of evolution (let face who doesnt) why didnt the dinosars reach a level of advanced civilisation?

Yeah call me a literalist.

Because they had peanut sized brains and stumpy legs, and no opposable thumbs.

[osszie]

Originally posted by Sween

If you believe the theory of evolution (let face who doesnt) why didnt the dinosars reach a level of advanced civilisation?


The best example of this is the roman empire (they had central heating people) i find them facinating how they were so advanced and clever.

Harry Harrison wrote an excellent tale based on the dinosaur not becomming extinct and evolving in his Eden series of book

Yes the Romans were a brilliant culture, but what about the Egyptians? They created crude batteries! Why did there interest in science suddenly wain?......and how much further ahead would we be if they had continued

And the Aztec carvings that appear to be space ships and astronaughts

Maybe the human race has discovered, then forgotten, more than we realise ............. I'm only thankful that the chinese only used gunpowder for fireworks for hundreds of years before they utilised the stuff for powering cannons

[Lizra]

I remember reading That the Romans drank lots of lead in their water ( thru their aquaduct system), dumbing them down over time.

[osszie]

Originally posted by Lizra
I remember reading That the Romans drank lots of lead in their water ( thru their aquaduct system), dumbing them down over time.

I've heard that as well, also that the wealthy Romans favoured driking vessels made from copper.....elements from the copper in the wine/water/wotever lead, over time, to insanity

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by osszie
Yes the Romans were a brilliant culture, but what about the Egyptians? They created crude batteries! Why did there interest in science suddenly wain?......and how much further ahead would we be if they had continued

Not to mention the first usage of early glass - faience.

Osszie:
And the Aztec carvings that appear to be space ships and astronaughts

Erm. Daaniken was off on that. It actually turned out that those glyphs were of the ruling monarch surrounded by the tree of life.

[Lizra]

Seems like we have the "tiger by tale" nowadays, but it's hard to see the forest for the trees! I wonder what fatal mistake "THEY" will talk about 1500 years from now, as our undoing. Mismanagement of nuclear power? Hopefully we won't blow it so bad, and there will be another wave of intelligence to rise up from the dust. (idealy, we'll just keep building though! )

[osszie]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Erm. Daaniken was off on that. It actually turned out that those glyphs were of the ruling monarch surrounded by the tree of life.

Yep. have read that before Tis much more fun to think of it as a spaceship tho', and it does look a little uncanny

Aztecs fascinate me. Why were the temples of the sun and moon deserted, and for that matter who built/used them Their calenders that incorporated all the planets in our solar system are just amazing. How did they know of these planets and there cycles (I'm wibbling, as usual, shutting up)

Lizra I think our "age" will be seen in the future as a time of great discovery, and equally great ignorance..........can just vision a human in 500 yrs time "They threw nuclear waste into the sea or buried it?................thank goodness we're out of the dark ages!!!"

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by osszie
Aztecs fascinate me. Why were the temples of the sun and moon deserted, and for that matter who built/used them Their calenders that incorporated all the planets in our solar system are just amazing. How did they know of these planets and there cycles (I'm wibbling, as usual, shutting up)

Haha. Nothing on me once I get going. I majored in this stuff, so I can get on the proverbial soapbox or two...

There is a theory that the temples were abandoned because quite simply, they ran out of trees! I can't remember offhand the amount of trees they used to enable them to build, re-build, shift, burn, etc, but it was astronomical! And of course, the flora in that area is so dense, that it only takes a couple of years before things are so completely overgrown, that the temples are lost.

Regarding the planetary cycles. Granted they did calculate some pretty amazing stuff, but their estimate of the venusian year was off by quite a bit. (584 as opposed to the 225 days that it actually is.)

[osszie]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Haha. Nothing on me once I get going. I majored in this stuff, so I can get on the proverbial soapbox or two...

There is a theory that the temples were abandoned because quite simply, they ran out of trees! I can't remember offhand the amount of trees they used to enable them to build, re-build, shift, burn, etc, but it was astronomical! And of course, the flora in that area is so dense, that it only takes a couple of years before things are so completely overgrown, that the temples are lost.

The loss of resources certainly is a valid explanation ......although I can't help but wonder why they did not rebuild in another location as the pyramids/temples seem to signify a very strong religion in that area at the time

Ach another archealogical/historical mystery that will elude us for the while

Finding a lost technology would be a great influence/enlightenment for the world........but I believe we have also lost an enormous amount of knowledge (herb lore, philosophy etc) If only the Celtic Druids etc had written their findings down, instead of the oral tradition they follow

[galadriel88]

If you believe the theory of evolution (let face who doesnt)

I don't.

This is a very interesting topic, I love thinking about things like this! (At least until my head starts spinning, that is... ) Anyhoo, I think it is entirely possible for one or more ancient civilizations to have been this way. Especially the very smart ones or those we don't know much about...
Just a random thought here: could the ancient civilizations have formed some kind of an alliance, very early on, that was not recorded?(As in, during prehistory) Something simillar to our UN.