The Perfect Cast! - Page 2

cassiopeia · 04-21-2003, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
He left at age 50, 17 years after Bilbo's 111st birthday. However due to the effects of the One Ring, he would still look 33.

I know he left at age 50 in the book, but since he left a little after the party in the movie, he would be 33.

Wayfarer · 04-21-2003, 02:35 AM

The cast, while they all attempted to perform their best, and did adaquately as a whole, were far from perfect.

Mrs. Maggott · 04-21-2003, 06:28 AM

We are confusing film and book here. In the book, Frodo leaves the Shire at age 50, 17 years after he receives the Ring from Bilbo after the Party. However, as he possessed the Ring during those 17 years, he still appears to be the same age as he was when he received it - 33.

In the film, we are never told how old Frodo is nor is there any mention of a shared birthday, so his age never comes up. Furthermore, unlike the 17 year hiatus between the receipt of the Ring and the Quest, less than a year passes between the two events. Indeed, Frodo apparently sets out upon the quest in the spring/summer following the Party - enough time for Gandalf to ride to Minas Tirith and retrieve Isildur's scroll. However, it must be remembered that however much or little time has passed, possession of the Ring would mean that Frodo would appear the same as he did when he received it.

Of course, Jackson rather destroyed that characteristic of the Ring by aging Bilbo from the time he first possessed the Ring wherein he changes from a hobbit with a full head of dark, luxurious hair (in the tunnel) to a hobbit with thinning gray hair when Gandalf comes to visit before the Party. When the Wizard tells an obviously much older hobbit he "hasn't aged a day" (which in fact is how he should have been portrayed), the audience is left to wonder whether or not Gandalf needs spectacles!

But with regard to Frodo, although there has obviously been confusion between the book and film, the fact is that he would not have appeared to have aged from the moment he gained possession of the Ring and therefore his youthful appearance is hardly problematic.

***azalea*** · 04-21-2003, 02:31 PM

There has been past discussion here regarding Possession vs. Use as far as the Ring and aging are concerned. I still maintain that the bearer did age, but only very slightly over a very long period of time, and the effect was even greater when the bearer actually used the ring vs. not. Plus, I know we aren't told this in the movie, but Gandalf had visited Bilbo several times between the time he found the ring and the long-expected party. I think he means Bilbo hasn't aged a day from the last time he saw him. Of course again that is crossing movie with book, but I don't think the non-reading audience even noticed (at least none I know mentioned that as an area of confusion).

Mrs. Maggott · 04-21-2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
There has been past discussion here regarding Possession vs. Use as far as the Ring and aging are concerned. I still maintain that the bearer did age, but only very slightly over a very long period of time, and the effect was even greater when the bearer actually used the ring vs. not. Plus, I know we aren't told this in the movie, but Gandalf had visited Bilbo several times between the time he found the ring and the long-expected party. I think he means Bilbo hasn't aged a day from the last time he saw him. Of course again that is crossing movie with book, but I don't think the non-reading audience even noticed (at least none I know mentioned that as an area of confusion).

"'And all seemed well with Bilbo. And the years passed. Yes, they passed, and they seemed not to touch him. HE SHOWED NO SIGNS OF AGE. The shadow fell on me again.'" [The Shadow of the Past, FOTR, LOTR]

Thus does Gandalf speak to Frodo about Bilbo and the Ring. It is clear that Bilbo should have looked much as he looked when he found the Ring because Gandalf then goes on to say, "Of course, he possessed the ring for many years, and used it..." I don't think there can be much doubt that Bilbo might have showed some sign of the passing years, but they would have been quite miniscule for Gandalf to say that "he showed no signs of age".

Bombadillo · 04-21-2003, 04:29 PM

Ahhh... I started this post last night and it was really long and the computer frose. So in short Christopher Lee really had the voice of Saruman. Great cast.

Finrod Felagund · 04-22-2003, 11:35 AM

Hugo Weaving wnot a good Elrond. Sorry, my opinion. I thought Mckellen was brilliant but I think that perhaps Richard Harris could have done even better. Just a thought.

Elf Girl · 04-22-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I know he left at age 50 in the book, but since he left a little after the party in the movie, he would be 33.

I don't think so, remember Bilbo's hair changed color.

But that is beside the point. Forget about it.

ladyarwen · 04-22-2003, 01:07 PM

I really liked the actors for LOTR. Viggo was AWESOME as Aragorn. I can't think of a better person to play him. As for the hobbits being too young, I don't think it would be as good if they got 30-40 year old actors to play the hobbits. But I think Elijah Wood was a good Frodo. And I think Sam was good. The only one I didn't really like was Galadriel. But Gandalf I thought was really well done.

***azalea*** · 04-22-2003, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mrs. Maggott
"'And all seemed well with Bilbo. And the years passed. Yes, they passed, and they seemed not to touch him. HE SHOWED NO SIGNS OF AGE. The shadow fell on me again.'" [The Shadow of the Past, FOTR, LOTR]

Thus does Gandalf speak to Frodo about Bilbo and the Ring. It is clear that Bilbo should have looked much as he looked when he found the Ring because Gandalf then goes on to say, "Of course, he possessed the ring for many years, and used it..." I don't think there can be much doubt that Bilbo might have showed some sign of the passing years, but they would have been quite miniscule for Gandalf to say that "he showed no signs of age".

I could be difficult and say that saying"no signs of age" could be different than saying "no signs of aging."

But I won't.

Mrs. Maggott · 04-22-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
I could be difficult and say that saying"no signs of age" could be different than saying "no signs of aging."
But I won't.

You are, as Bugs Bunny was wont to say, "splitting hares". The idiom here means the same. When G. says "no signs of age", he means just that: Bilbo does not appear "old". However, he also means "no sign of aging" since he has also said that "the years didn't touch him". When you put the two together, there is no doubt that the Wizard is alluding to the fact that Bilbo looks much the same as he did when he acquired the Ring so many years before. Indeed, it is the apparently "changeless" aspect of the hobbit - as well as his lack of candor about the Ring which was certainly out of character - which led the Wizard to have suspicions in the first place! By aging Bilbo as much as he did, Jackson made a cardinal error in the matter.

In fact, he aged Bilbo so much that it "threw off" the matter of the hobbit's natural return of the aging process upon his surrender of the Ring. And even that didn't make sense because less than a year passed between Bilbo giving up the Ring and Frodo seeing him in Rivendell, yet he was supposed to have aged greatly in that short time. On the other hand, in the book, some seventeen years pass between the former and latter occurrences. However, Jackson seemed to have no concern for these small details although he told the story as if he had remained true to them.

***azalea*** · 04-22-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mrs. Maggott
You are, as Bugs Bunny was wont to say, "splitting hares". The idiom here means the same. When G. says "no signs of age", he means just that: Bilbo does not appear "old". However, he also means "no sign of aging" since he has also said that "the years didn't touch him". When you put the two together, there is no doubt that the Wizard is alluding to the fact that Bilbo looks much the same as he did when he acquired the Ring so many years before. Indeed, it is the apparently "changeless" aspect of the hobbit - as well as his lack of candor about the Ring which was certainly out of character - which led the Wizard to have suspicions in the first place! By aging Bilbo as much as he did, Jackson made a cardinal error in the matter.

(I don't know how to do that split-quote thingy, so I'll just try this this. Ah, it worked!)
How do you KNOW that's what he meant? "Years" could also mean the number of his years as a whole.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that no one will ever convince me that when he set out from Bag End, Frodo looked like an 18 year old man (I mean man in the "race" sense of the word). My mental image may be "wrong," but I don't think so!

Quote:

In fact, he aged Bilbo so much that it "threw off" the matter of the hobbit's natural return of the aging process upon his surrender of the Ring. And even that didn't make sense because less than a year passed between Bilbo giving up the Ring and Frodo seeing him in Rivendell, yet he was supposed to have aged greatly in that short time. On the other hand, in the book, some seventeen years pass between the former and latter occurrences. However, Jackson seemed to have no concern for these small details although he told the story as if he had remained true to them.

I agree with you there.

Mrs. Maggott · 04-22-2003, 04:23 PM

We are never told Frodo's age in the films. The party is for Bilbo alone; there is no mention of a shared birthday. Therefore, whatever age Frodo is, he is. And since less than a year passes between the time he receives the Ring and leaving the Shire, of course one could not expect to see any unique aging - or lack thereof. Again, remember in the book, Frodo is said to look like a hobbit just leaving his "tweens" (that is, age 33) when he leaves the Shire with the Ring at the actual age of 50. In the film, none of this obtains since [1] we don't know Frodo's age at the beginning and [2] less than a year passes before he has to leave the Shire.

As for Bilbo: he was 50 when he found the Ring (the age at which he set off on his adventure). Gandalf notes throughout all the time he watches over him after that, that "the years don't touch him" - which means that he does not age at least in appearance. If Bilbo aged in his appearance, Gandalf would not have grown suspicious of the Ring for only the Great Rings gave extended life for as long as they were possessed. Furthermore, Gandalf tells Frodo that Bilbo would just "go on" after getting rid of the Ring and I would suppose that this means he would start to age again and eventually "catch up" with his actual chronological age. This is shown to be true when in the book, Frodo comes to Rivendell and finds Bilbo (now 128) looking every year of that robust age.

The interesting aside from this is, of course, Gollum! Gollum has possessed the Ring for 500 years - and used it. Yet he has never "faded" (as Gandalf notes in the Council of Elrond) nor has he "caught up" with his actual age after losing the Ring to Bilbo! In fact, he is apparently still "living on" as if he still possessed the Ring. I have never understood this, but some have suggested that it may be the fact that Gollum's life force is now completely connected to and been absorbed by the Ring and he simply continues to exist until the Ring is destroyed. That may in fact be the case because in Mordor, Gollum tells Sam that he will "die" when the Ring goes into the Fire. Still, Gollum appears to be the exception that proves the rule about aging and possession of the Ring.

Indril Anarion · 04-22-2003, 08:53 PM

I think that PJ could not have picked a better cast

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 04-22-2003, 09:36 PM

Jeez, ya bunch O' nit pickers!

The cast was definitely not perfect. But I was pleasantly surprised, nonetheless. I do not think we could have hoped for any better, all things considered.

The standouts IMO are as follows:

Gandalf - I thought McKellen was near perfect.

Aragorn - Very, very good. His voice threw me at first, though.

Bilbo - his looks were perfect, plus great acting.

Boromir - his excellent acting really made the part.

Eowyn - Miranda made me like the character more than I did prior
to watching the movies.

Galadriel - her voice really seals the deal. Her eyes are beautiful.

Saruman - Perfect, but I think the script for his parts could have been better.

Wormtongue - loathsome, as he should be.

Eomer - very impressive. I wish he would have had more screen time.

Pippen - he just "looked" like Pippen to me.

Sam - he acted the part very well, but I had to warm up to him.

Theoden - good screen presence.

Legolas - He has really grown on me.

Gimli - excellant choice, though his scripted parts suck bigtime.

Passable choices are as follows:

Arwen - she does fine with what she was scripted with
Frodo
Merry
Haldir - he seems ok to me, though I know he's not popular

Miscasts are as follows:

Elrond - Although I like him alright now, it took a very long time for me to accept him.

BeardofPants · 04-22-2003, 11:24 PM

Did anyone else find it really odd that - given how much of a perfectionist Viggo is - he didn't work on his accent?

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-23-2003, 12:14 AM

Hmm...I didn't notice that before...it is odd, isn't it?

I see you brought your sheep back.

Bombadillo · 04-23-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Indril Anarion
I think that PJ could not have picked a better cast

I don't think so. There could have been better hobbits (in the fellowship) but other than them it was perfect.

BeardofPants · 04-23-2003, 12:47 AM

Baaaaa.

Wayfarer · 04-23-2003, 12:54 AM

Is that an insult or a compliment, BoP?

04-21-2003, 02:35 AM	#22
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	The cast, while they all attempted to perform their best, and did adaquately as a whole, were far from perfect. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

04-21-2003, 06:28 AM	#23
Mrs. Maggott Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 59	We are confusing film and book here. In the book, Frodo leaves the Shire at age 50, 17 years after he receives the Ring from Bilbo after the Party. However, as he possessed the Ring during those 17 years, he still appears to be the same age as he was when he received it - 33. In the film, we are never told how old Frodo is nor is there any mention of a shared birthday, so his age never comes up. Furthermore, unlike the 17 year hiatus between the receipt of the Ring and the Quest, less than a year passes between the two events. Indeed, Frodo apparently sets out upon the quest in the spring/summer following the Party - enough time for Gandalf to ride to Minas Tirith and retrieve Isildur's scroll. However, it must be remembered that however much or little time has passed, possession of the Ring would mean that Frodo would appear the same as he did when he received it. Of course, Jackson rather destroyed that characteristic of the Ring by aging Bilbo from the time he first possessed the Ring wherein he changes from a hobbit with a full head of dark, luxurious hair (in the tunnel) to a hobbit with thinning gray hair when Gandalf comes to visit before the Party. When the Wizard tells an obviously much older hobbit he "hasn't aged a day" (which in fact is how he should have been portrayed), the audience is left to wonder whether or not Gandalf needs spectacles! But with regard to Frodo, although there has obviously been confusion between the book and film, the fact is that he would not have appeared to have aged from the moment he gained possession of the Ring and therefore his youthful appearance is hardly problematic. __________________ Mrs. M. "A Queen among farmer's wives"

04-21-2003, 04:29 PM	#26
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	Ahhh... I started this post last night and it was really long and the computer frose. So in short Christopher Lee really had the voice of Saruman. Great cast. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-22-2003, 11:35 AM	#27
Finrod Felagund King of Nargothrond Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada! eh? Posts: 2,002	Hugo Weaving wnot a good Elrond. Sorry, my opinion. I thought Mckellen was brilliant but I think that perhaps Richard Harris could have done even better. Just a thought. __________________ "THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!"

04-22-2003, 04:23 PM	#33
Mrs. Maggott Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 59	We are never told Frodo's age in the films. The party is for Bilbo alone; there is no mention of a shared birthday. Therefore, whatever age Frodo is, he is. And since less than a year passes between the time he receives the Ring and leaving the Shire, of course one could not expect to see any unique aging - or lack thereof. Again, remember in the book, Frodo is said to look like a hobbit just leaving his "tweens" (that is, age 33) when he leaves the Shire with the Ring at the actual age of 50. In the film, none of this obtains since [1] we don't know Frodo's age at the beginning and [2] less than a year passes before he has to leave the Shire. As for Bilbo: he was 50 when he found the Ring (the age at which he set off on his adventure). Gandalf notes throughout all the time he watches over him after that, that "the years don't touch him" - which means that he does not age at least in appearance. If Bilbo aged in his appearance, Gandalf would not have grown suspicious of the Ring for only the Great Rings gave extended life for as long as they were possessed. Furthermore, Gandalf tells Frodo that Bilbo would just "go on" after getting rid of the Ring and I would suppose that this means he would start to age again and eventually "catch up" with his actual chronological age. This is shown to be true when in the book, Frodo comes to Rivendell and finds Bilbo (now 128) looking every year of that robust age. The interesting aside from this is, of course, Gollum! Gollum has possessed the Ring for 500 years - and used it. Yet he has never "faded" (as Gandalf notes in the Council of Elrond) nor has he "caught up" with his actual age after losing the Ring to Bilbo! In fact, he is apparently still "living on" as if he still possessed the Ring. I have never understood this, but some have suggested that it may be the fact that Gollum's life force is now completely connected to and been absorbed by the Ring and he simply continues to exist until the Ring is destroyed. That may in fact be the case because in Mordor, Gollum tells Sam that he will "die" when the Ring goes into the Fire. Still, Gollum appears to be the exception that proves the rule about aging and possession of the Ring. __________________ Mrs. M. "A Queen among farmer's wives"

04-21-2003, 02:31 PM	#24
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	There has been past discussion here regarding Possession vs. Use as far as the Ring and aging are concerned. I still maintain that the bearer did age, but only very slightly over a very long period of time, and the effect was even greater when the bearer actually used the ring vs. not. Plus, I know we aren't told this in the movie, but Gandalf had visited Bilbo several times between the time he found the ring and the long-expected party. I think he means Bilbo hasn't aged a day from the last time he saw him. Of course again that is crossing movie with book, but I don't think the non-reading audience even noticed (at least none I know mentioned that as an area of confusion).

04-22-2003, 01:07 PM	#29
ladyarwen Sapling Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Valley of Rivendell Posts: 8	I really liked the actors for LOTR. Viggo was AWESOME as Aragorn. I can't think of a better person to play him. As for the hobbits being too young, I don't think it would be as good if they got 30-40 year old actors to play the hobbits. But I think Elijah Wood was a good Frodo. And I think Sam was good. The only one I didn't really like was Galadriel. But Gandalf I thought was really well done.

04-22-2003, 08:53 PM	#34
Indril Anarion Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: My heart is forever in Mirkwood Posts: 429	I think that PJ could not have picked a better cast __________________ I'm a Jesus Freak and proud of it... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us." -Gandalf, FOTR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody tosses a Dwarf." - Gimli, FOTR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Save Ferris!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My true Elven name is Idril Anarion, but I misspelled in the username, and now I can't fix it... Oh, well...now you know... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't be afraid of death....Be afraid of the unlived life- Tuck Everlasting

04-22-2003, 09:36 PM	#35
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	Jeez, ya bunch O' nit pickers! The cast was definitely not perfect. But I was pleasantly surprised, nonetheless. I do not think we could have hoped for any better, all things considered. The standouts IMO are as follows: Gandalf - I thought McKellen was near perfect. Aragorn - Very, very good. His voice threw me at first, though. Bilbo - his looks were perfect, plus great acting. Boromir - his excellent acting really made the part. Eowyn - Miranda made me like the character more than I did prior to watching the movies. Galadriel - her voice really seals the deal. Her eyes are beautiful. Saruman - Perfect, but I think the script for his parts could have been better. Wormtongue - loathsome, as he should be. Eomer - very impressive. I wish he would have had more screen time. Pippen - he just "looked" like Pippen to me. Sam - he acted the part very well, but I had to warm up to him. Theoden - good screen presence. Legolas - He has really grown on me. Gimli - excellant choice, though his scripted parts suck bigtime. Passable choices are as follows: Arwen - she does fine with what she was scripted with Frodo Merry Haldir - he seems ok to me, though I know he's not popular Miscasts are as follows: Elrond - Although I like him alright now, it took a very long time for me to accept him. __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

04-22-2003, 11:24 PM	#36
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Did anyone else find it really odd that - given how much of a perfectionist Viggo is - he didn't work on his accent? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

04-23-2003, 12:14 AM	#37
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hmm...I didn't notice that before...it is odd, isn't it? I see you brought your sheep back. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-23-2003, 12:47 AM	#39
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Baaaaa. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

04-23-2003, 12:54 AM	#40
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Is that an insult or a compliment, BoP? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

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