Why did the Balrog stay in Moria?

[Lenya]

Thanx for the cool site. I've joined

[Valarauko5]

Wow. A Valarauco thread that's actually interesting. Actually being a "balrog" myself I would like to say that we are actually quite intelligent, but maybe not as, hmmm, skilled in the art of Dark Lording. Has anyone stopped to think WHERE the orcs in Moria came from? Perhaps my good buddy in Moria was developing his own kingdom but didn't have the training in it that Sauron had gotten from Morgoth? Plus he didn't have the head start. He was hiding in a hole from the big nasty Valar. So maybe Sauron didn't even know he was there. Remember that the Valarauco were very much Morgoths. Sauron was in charge of the Werewolf contingent. So it is quite possible that we could have had two dark lords fighting for power eventually. Imagine what would have happened if the "balrog" had found the ring?

[Coffeehouse]

I disagree with the view that the Balrog had the potential or possibly could have either taken the Ring for itself or tried form a kingdom of darkness of some sort.

To me the Balrog is so ancient, so detached from the more earthly conflicts of Middle Earth, that although it is a dark and evil being, it, I argue, does not share any alliance with Sauron nor the orcs of Moria. Albeit being the creation of Morgoth, it has become wild in the depths of Moria and can no longer be subdued. It's not dependent on anyone, and has thus become independent. Sauron does not control it and can, in this point of time in the 3rd Age, not control it. It is the epitome of darkness, no strings, much like the herders of Fangorn, the Ents, are detached from the wider conflict and really do not answer to anyone but themself. They are they epitome of the natural world.

And I gotta say again I love the depiction from the movies. It captures its ancient age and fiery nature perfectly

[Gordis]

One does not need to "share an alliance with Sauron" to steal and claim his Ring.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

One does not need to "share an alliance with Sauron" to steal and claim his Ring.

Ah, but that is not what I wrote Two different points I put forward, not related.

What I first spelled out that is that I don't think the Balrog would be able to wield (I don't think it possessed the physical attribute for it) nor be interested in the Ring. Frankly I don't think it would crave it. The Balrog is, I think, the epitome of ancient darkness. It needs nothing to amplify this, it has become, the Durin's Bane Balrog, truly independent like Sauron never could be.

Then I point out that the Balrog is independent, and does not have an alliance with Sauron. It permits some Orcs to roam around Moria, but better with some stupid, semi-evil creatures than annoying and loud, mining Dwarves.

[Valarauko5]

That's a good point. I agree that that is possible. It just seems to me that if a Balrog can be a General, see Gothmog, that it was intelligent enough to want to cause chaos and destruction. It seems to me that the Moria Balrog was just intelligent enough to realize that it couldn't get to the ring without killing Gandalf. Though it is a distinct possibility that, since Gandalf came into the world after the fall of Morgoth, it simply was taken off guard by a more powerful being than it first thought. But I prefer the ring theory. Why did the Balrog itself come up if the THOUSANDS of orcs could have easily taken care of the group? Remember that the ring draws all evil to it.

[Coffeehouse]

It's a good question. My thinking goes something along this line:

The thundering sound of 'doom-boom, doom-boom' echoed through the Mines, and the eruptoni of a clattering sound of hundreds or even thousands of orcs rushing through the tunnels above, the Balrog may have been rudely awaken. And for all we know it had been quite some time since such disturbance had penetrated down to the depths of where it lived and sound waves in the Mines of Moria would carry many miles in the ancient spaceous tunnels.

So the Balrog's attention is caught and rises upwards, perhaps to see who is causing such disturbance in its domain of darkness, perhaps to punish (maim, kill, eat) the Orcs for violating its relatively forgiving hospitality Yet then something interesting happens. The Balrog, a corrupt being of the ancient world, a Maia just like Gandalf, perceives the presence of another Maia. It would be nothing less than astonished, a million thoughts streaming through its mind, and the awakening of long lost memories from the First Age: Why is there a Maia in Moria? What does it want? Are there more? Are they here for the Balrog? How did they find it?

The Balrog reaches the levels of where the Companionship is, perhaps realising that there are fewer than he thought, perhaps a sense of relief. Yet the Balrog won't stop there. It will face down whatever other powerful being roams through its Mines. By virtue of its proud, ancient dark evil, by virtue of its fierce independence, and by virtue of its sense of ownership of whatever goes on in the Mines of Moria. So it begins its demonstration of power..

"What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such a challenge. The counter-spell was terrible. It nearly broke me. For an instant the door left my control and began to open! I had to speak a word of Command. That proved too great a strain. The door burst into pieces. Something dark as a cloud was blocking out all the light inside, and I was thrown backwards down the stairs. All the wall gave way, and the roof of the chamber as well, I think." (Pg 345, The Bridge of Khazad-dûm, FOTR)

[Valarauko5]

Good point. But I'm not positive it was really sleeping. Daddy balrog was always an ambitious guy. I think the more reasonable explanation is that he had control of the watcher at the gate (reasonable since it seems to be a lesser evil creature, easily controlled) and when he felt the presence of another Maia in his mines, he went about closing off the exit at the other end. Remember that when they see the fire they say "what is this new devilry?" and I think it's Gandalf who says it's prepared for them. Wouldn't that take time? Thus he prepared for them. The book even implies that they set the trap for the fellowship in the chamber. Though you're idea has quite a bit of merit. *thumbs up*

[Alcuin]

He went to Moria for the waters, but he was misinformed.