Did Aragorn know about the Balrog in Moria?

[Artanis]

On the quest, Gandalf wanted the Fellowship to go through the mines, but Aragorn was against it. He warned Gandalf specifically:

'I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware! '

Why would he say that, if he didn't knew?

Aragorn also mentions that he had been in Moria before. On which occasion was that? Did he learn about the danger at that time?

[olsonm]

Well, Aragorn was prone to foresight, but he may have known that something bad was in Moria without knowing exactly what it was.

[Lizra]

I think he did, that is why he didn't want to go there. I also feel that he felt the Balrog was wearing Gandalf's name. I wish there was more explanation to his first visit, like there was for Gandalf"s.

[Ulmo]

He knew of great danger in Moria, obviously - everyone did, because of the fall of Durin.

He did NOT know there was a balrog, though. There was no "foresight" involved, nor did he expect the terror to be Gandalf's defeat. Aragorn simply feared the terror in Moria, and knew, as leader, that Gandalf would be the leader in the fight against any such terror.

Only Gandalf sensed the magnitude of the danger in Moria, but he too was unaware of the balrog.

Aragorn didn't even know the word 'balrog.' He was clearly not familiar with the term as he was unable to give that name when giving the account of what happened to Galadriel.

'An evil of the Ancient World it seemed, such as I have never seen before,' said Aragorn. `It was both a shadow and a flame, strong and terrible.'

It is Legolas who must clarify what it was to Galadriel after Aragorn's comment.

'It was a Balrog of Morgoth,' said Legolas; `of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower.'

'Durin's Bane' had been fabled by the dwarves, but no one knew what it was, or whence it came. Gimli shows us this:

`Indeed I saw upon the bridge that which haunts our darkest dreams l saw Durin's Bane,' said Gimli in a low voice, and dread was in his eyes.

Celeborn then goes on to explain that a terror underneath Moria was expected by the elves also, but no one knew what it was.

'Alas! ' said Celeborn. `We long have feared that under Caradhras a terror slept. But had I known that the Dwarves had stirred up this evil in Moria again, l would have forbidden you to pass the northern borders, you and all that went with you.'

Celeborn's statement is an echo of an earlier comment made by Gandalf. Like I said before, even he did not know a balrog was in Moria. It is only when Legolas and Gandalf see the balrog that Durin's Bane identity is known to anyone. Note the bold text especially:

'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. `Durin's Bane! ' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. `Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. `What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'

The terror was known because Durin's colony was wiped out and Durin slain. Balin tried to recolonize Moria, but obviously his attempt failed as Durin's did. No one was aware of the balrog. Aragorn certainly was not. They only knew something dangerous was down there.

[Lizra]

I stand corrected! Thanks!

[Aranwe]

He does in the movie... saruman says in thought to him something like "the dwarves delved too deep and too greedily. You know what they awoke in the darkness."

Thats just the movie though, doesnt happen in the book.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ulmo
He did NOT know there was a balrog, though. There was no "foresight" involved, nor did he expect the terror to be Gandalf's defeat. Aragorn simply feared the terror in Moria, and knew, as leader, that Gandalf would be the leader in the fight against any such terror.

I agree that Gandalf did not know there was a Balrog in Moria until he faced it, I also agree that at first only Gandalf and Legolas knew what the thing was. But I still think it's thought-provoking that Aragorn warned Gandalf the way he did. He was more concerned about Gandalf than the Ring-bearer. I find that significant.

Aragorn didn't even know the word 'balrog.' He was clearly not familiar with the term as he was unable to give that name when giving the account of what happened to Galadriel.

Perhaps Aragorn didn't know in advance the exact nature of the terror in Moria. But he must at least have known the word 'balrog', and I also think he had heard stories about Balrogs from the ancient times, being brought up in Rivendell.

Anyway, Legolas' well-known wailing "Ai! Ai! A Balrog! A Balrog has come!", and Gandalf's "A Balrog. Now I understand" should make the name of the creature clear for everyone present. I don't know why Aragorn didn't name it in front of Galadriel and Celeborn.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Lizra
I also feel that he felt the Balrog was wearing Gandalf's name.

Lizra, I have the same feeling. Aragorn was of high lineage, and was nurtured by the Elves in Rivendell. He might very well have been able to 'feel in advance' a danger.

Aranwe, I think in the movie Saruman said that 'in thought' to Gandalf himself, and not to Aragorn. Am I right?

[Lizra]

So you think Aragorn had a premonition, or just a general pychic feeling of trouble for Gandalf..... I was very curious about Aragorn's first trip through Moria. It seems that Gandalf does all the guiding. Is anymore said about what Aragorn was doing in Moria? Could it have been when he was looking for Gollum, or something much earlier?

[Elfstone.]

Look here

'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. `Durin's Bane! ' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. `Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. `What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'

Gandalf only at this point finds out that its a Balrog, he knew something was there but he didnt even know it was a Balrog until he saw it. So dare I even ask you if Gandalf didn't know what are the chances Aragorn would know?

davie the dunadan

Anlya ëa i Arandor i valaar i alcar oioaroio : násie :

[Aranwe]

Yes Artanis, that's what I meant. I forgot to write who I was talking about

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Lizra
So you think Aragorn had a premonition, or just a general pychic feeling of trouble for Gandalf.

I think Aragorn had a feeling Gandalf would meet his fate if he went in. Gandalf may have been aware of it himself, but still decided to go there, because it would gain the Fellowship. (Btw, premonition is a good word, had to look it up in dictionary )

Is anymore said about what Aragorn was doing in Moria? Could it have been when he was looking for Gollum, or something much earlier?

I would like to know more about this too. It is a mystery.

Originally posted by Elfstone
Gandalf only at this point finds out that its a Balrog, he knew something was there but he didnt even know it was a Balrog until he saw it. So dare I even ask you if Gandalf didn't know what are the chances Aragorn would know?

If you read the previous posts again, you will see that we have agreed that no one knew there was a Balrog in Moria, only that there were some sort of powerful terror there.

Aranwe, thanks.

[Ulmo]

Like I said, Aragorn was aware that Durin's entire kingdom fell to whatever terror was dormant beneath the mountains - something that could destroy a whole dwarven kingdom must've been quite terrible. It was obvious to anyone who knew the history. I think you're reading too much into Aragorn's statement - he was just concerned. He said it to Gandalf (not Frodo) because Gandalf was the leader. Frodo wouldn't have faced the balrog unless he was the last left, since the other eight of the Fellowship were sent solely to defend Frodo. If the other eight fell, I (and Aragorn, probably) thought Frodo would have no chance on his own anyway - for one, he didn't know the way. Thus another reason Aragorn probably said it to Gandalf - if Gandalf couldn't defeat it, he doubted both the ability of the group without Gandalf to make it past the terror, and, if successful in evading the terror, the ability of the group to make it to Mount Doom.

But he must at least have known the word 'balrog', and I also think he had heard stories about Balrogs from the ancient times, being brought up in Rivendell.

He "must" know it - yet he doesn't use it when telling the story? I don't see that.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ulmo
I think you're reading too much into Aragorn's statement - he was just concerned.

Well, I think that statement is one of the subtle points JRRT has written into the book. It's up to the reader to imagine the meaning of it.

He said it to Gandalf (not Frodo) because Gandalf was the leader. Frodo wouldn't have faced the balrog unless he was the last left, since the other eight of the Fellowship were sent solely to defend Frodo. If the other eight fell, I (and Aragorn, probably) thought Frodo would have no chance on his own anyway - for one, he didn't know the way. Thus another reason Aragorn probably said it to Gandalf - if Gandalf couldn't defeat it, he doubted both the ability of the group without Gandalf to make it past the terror, and, if successful in evading the terror, the ability of the group to make it to Mount Doom.

Aragorn clearly states that it is not the Ring, nor the others in the company he is concerned about.

It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!

I take it Aragorn is concerned about Gandalf as a person, not Gandalf as leader of the Fellowship. That's how I see it. But of course, it's open for interpretations.

He "must" know it - yet he doesn't use it when telling the story? I don't see that.

It's easier to believe that, than to believe he grew up in Imladris and had never heard about Balrogs.

[durin's bane]

Aragorn probably knew of danger in Moria, after all, he had been there before, I think. But I'm not sure if he knew there was a Balrog or not. He does have the gift of foresight, I think, so maybe he not only didn't want to enter Moria because of the Balrog, but maybe he was also concerned for Gandalf's safety because maybe Aragorn foresaw his death. But, if he did know of the Balrog and the "death" of Gandalf, wouldn't he have told him? Everyone knew of the danger of going through Moria, and Aragorn was no different. I guess that because he went through before, he didn't want to have anyone's life taken or experience the terrors of Moria again.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Artanis
I take it Aragorn is concerned about Gandalf as a person, not Gandalf as leader of the Fellowship. That's how I see it.

I agree with you Artanis, when I read it, I clearly thought he was giving a warning to a close friend and was genuinely concerned for his well-being. I mean if he was concerned for Gandalf as the leader of the fellowship, then he would not have said:

It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!

If he said he was concerned for Gandalf as being the leader, then naturally he would have been concerned for the others as well....

[Ulmo]

Why is it hard to believe that? The evidence says he didn't know the word. Whether it is hard to believe or not, it is the only opinion on the matter that can be supported by Tolkien's writing.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Aragorn's warning to Gandalf can probably be ascribed to an incidence of the same "foresight of his kindred" that suddenly came to him in the story of Arwen and Aragorn in Appendix A when he told Elrond "the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth." The same sort of thing that happened when he told Éomer they would meet again, even if all the foes of Mordor lay between them.

While he likely knew the word "Balrog" from his education in Rivendell and had a mental image of what one was, and perhaps even had heard first-hand descriptions of them from some of the Noldor, he (and everybody else) never expected to personally confront one in "modern" Middle-Earth, especially in such a crisis situation where the leadership of the company would fall on him. What a shock -- that would explain his description to Galadriel of what he had seen, even though he had heard both Gandalf and Legolas call it a Balrog. Like he was still coming to grips with the shock of confronting a nightmare suddenly come to life.

One wonders what his trip through Moria must have been like, and why it had been taken. Maybe he hadn't been able to cross the mountain pass because Caradhras was in a foul mood? And likely it was in the dark, too, unless he somehow managed to keep a torch burning all those miles. Then there were the Orcs, the foul water; the rocky, treacherous paths -- quite enough there to make it a foul memory for him, without meeting up with the Balrog, though perhaps it had come near him, and he had sensed the presence of Evil without knowing what it was. Who knows?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
While he likely knew the word "Balrog" from his education in Rivendell and had a mental image of what one was, and perhaps even had heard first-hand descriptions of them from some of the Noldor, he (and everybody else) never expected to personally confront one in "modern" Middle-Earth, especially in such a crisis situation where the leadership of the company would fall on him. What a shock -- that would explain his description to Galadriel of what he had seen, even though he had heard both Gandalf and Legolas call it a Balrog. Like he was still coming to grips with the shock of confronting a nightmare suddenly come to life.

I agree, I think he said it that way, because he was still shocked/sad of what had befallen his great friend. I was 'at a loss for words' so to speak....

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
Then there were the Orcs, the foul water; the rocky, treacherous paths -- quite enough there to make it a foul memory for him, without meeting up with the Balrog, though perhaps it had come near him, and he had sensed the presence of Evil without knowing what it was. Who knows?

Yeah, I agree again, lol. Aragorn did have great senses, hence him being titled "the greatest tracker in Middle Earth" by Gandalf. He most likely felt the presence of the evil. The men of old, Edain, and the elves had the ability to feel certain things, such as knowing when evil was around and I gather much of the same is true with Aragorn...

[Artanis]

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
One wonders what his trip through Moria must have been like, and why it had been taken. Maybe he hadn't been able to cross the mountain pass because Caradhras was in a foul mood? And likely it was in the dark, too, unless he somehow managed to keep a torch burning all those miles. Then there were the Orcs, the foul water; the rocky, treacherous paths -- quite enough there to make it a foul memory for him, without meeting up with the Balrog, though perhaps it had come near him, and he had sensed the presence of Evil without knowing what it was. Who knows?

So you think Aragorn went all the way through Moria? I think that sounds almost impossible, even for him. I thought he went in from the east looking for something, or someone, Gollum perhaps, but then gave up and came out again where he had entered.