Why did the Balrog stay in Moria? - Page 2

Ælfwine · 10-13-2004, 08:35 AM

What if there was in fact some sort of contact between Sauron and the Balrog of Moria?
Would it be in Sauron's best interest to keep the Balrog where he was? I can think of no better way to guard the passage than an angry Balrog. And with Saruman in control of the gap of Rohan, and Orcs holding the Northern Pass, any chance of help getting to Gondor from the West was slim. Unless a very powerful Maia came along. (Which he did).

Pytt · 10-13-2004, 10:18 AM

yes, that makes sense. noone can pass whitout Sauron knowing.
but what if Gandalf didn't slay the Balrog, would he(sauron) then force him out, if they had contact, to fight along his side in the battles? maybe at Minas thirith?

**Nurvingiel** · 10-13-2004, 12:53 PM

The Balrog is not answerable to Sauron. Balrog's work for Morgoth, and they are maiar IIRC, as is Sauron.

Ælfwine · 10-14-2004, 03:32 AM

The Balrog does not answer to Sauron as per se, but it was well known that Sauron was Morgoth's second-in-command.
I think that if Sauron had called, the Balrog would have come.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 10-14-2004, 02:04 PM

Maybe but that doesn't mean the Balrog had any allegiance to Sauron. They were Maiar to as was Sauron and their personal chief (Gothmog) was Morgoth's battle general so to speak.

Fenir_LacDanan · 10-14-2004, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Maybe but that doesn't mean the Balrog had any allegiance to Sauron. They were Maiar to as was Sauron and their personal chief (Gothmog) was Morgoth's battle general so to speak.

Thats the whole point, dear Dunedain. They where both Maiar. And gee, bugger... Gandalf.....Saruman......Radagast......wern't they maiar also? Not all Maiar agree or even consult each other. Races can have different sides, and not be in league.

And kids....neither do Valar.

God that's a goooood point

Radagast The Brown · 10-14-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

Thats the whole point, dear Dunedain. They where both Maiar. And gee, bugger... Gandalf.....Saruman......Radagast......wern't they maiar also? Not all Maiar agree or even consult each other. Races can have different sides, and not be in league.

And kids....neither do Valar.

God that's a goooood point

Yes, Valar and Maiar agree and consult with each other, of course. The thing is, even in the Istari there was a leader, there was one that's more powerful and has control over others, in a way.
With the Balrog and Sauron it would be even more clear - as Sauron and the Balrog's differences in powers are much bigger.

Fenir_LacDanan · 10-20-2004, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

Yes, Valar and Maiar agree and consult with each other, of course. The thing is, even in the Istari there was a leader, there was one that's more powerful and has control over others, in a way.
With the Balrog and Sauron it would be even more clear - as Sauron and the Balrog's differences in powers are much bigger.

The point was, Rad, that not ALL maiar and Valar confer or are in league. Balrogs and, say Gandalf, or Melian, or Sauron dont have to be in communication or league just because they are of the same race. Melkor is a Valar, and he and Tulkas dont quite see eye to eye, do they?

me9996 · 01-02-2005, 12:46 PM

What if he didn't want to be a "Hand-me-down" to soron?
(I think morgoth and soron are in some way related)

I'm still herting from asking the balrog!

Attalus · 01-05-2005, 03:53 PM

Morgoth and Sauron were related only in the sense that they were both immortal, angelic (or, rather, demonic) beings. Also, I have often speculated that the Balrog didn't join Sauron was devilish pride. "Better to reign in Moria than serve in Mordor," to paraphrase Milton.

ItalianLegolas · 01-08-2005, 07:07 PM

that is profound, maybe the Balrog was just to stupid to get out of Moria??

Attalus · 01-08-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

that is profound, maybe the Balrog was just to stupid to get out of Moria??

*Looks around apprehensively to see if Michael Martinez read that* Balrogs are fallen Ainur, angelic beings. They are not stupid.

ItalianLegolas · 01-08-2005, 07:54 PM

it was just an idea...

Pytt · 01-09-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attalus

*Looks around apprehensively to see if Michael Martinez read that* Balrogs are fallen Ainur, angelic beings. They are not stupid.

yes, I think we can be happy Michael Martinez is not here..then he would have attacked in calm rage on that statement..and for myself I would have been loong away

ItalianLegolas · 01-09-2005, 10:22 AM

who is Michael Martinez?

?

Pytt · 01-09-2005, 11:06 AM

a mooter which has an awful lot of information about middel earth. he popps up sometimes, posts an awful lot of logic posts, and dissapear for some months. I guess he has not been on after you joined.

ItalianLegolas · 01-09-2005, 11:38 AM

nope i don't think i've ever seen any of his posts

Lenya · 01-19-2005, 03:24 PM

I enjoy his comment a lot. They always seem to make so much sence. It's a shame he keeps disappearing

Attalus · 01-19-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

who is Michael Martinez?

?

Look here. You will see a lot of Michael. That's the Tolkien and Inklings forum on his his site, SF-Fandom.

inked · 01-19-2005, 04:12 PM

Well, we should consider the rent increase he would have had if he had upgraded to say, Osgiliath or Minas Morgul! And, he probably didn't want to move under the Misty Mountains with Gollum for a neighbor! So what choice did he have? Moria!

10-13-2004, 08:35 AM	#21
Ælfwine Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 23	What if there was in fact some sort of contact between Sauron and the Balrog of Moria? Would it be in Sauron's best interest to keep the Balrog where he was? I can think of no better way to guard the passage than an angry Balrog. And with Saruman in control of the gap of Rohan, and Orcs holding the Northern Pass, any chance of help getting to Gondor from the West was slim. Unless a very powerful Maia came along. (Which he did). __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë!

10-13-2004, 10:18 AM	#22
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	yes, that makes sense. noone can pass whitout Sauron knowing. but what if Gandalf didn't slay the Balrog, would he(sauron) then force him out, if they had contact, to fight along his side in the battles? maybe at Minas thirith? __________________ Don't Panic!

10-14-2004, 03:32 AM	#24
Ælfwine Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 23	The Balrog does not answer to Sauron as per se, but it was well known that Sauron was Morgoth's second-in-command. I think that if Sauron had called, the Balrog would have come. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë!

10-14-2004, 02:04 PM	#25
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Maybe but that doesn't mean the Balrog had any allegiance to Sauron. They were Maiar to as was Sauron and their personal chief (Gothmog) was Morgoth's battle general so to speak. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

01-05-2005, 03:53 PM	#30
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Morgoth and Sauron were related only in the sense that they were both immortal, angelic (or, rather, demonic) beings. Also, I have often speculated that the Balrog didn't join Sauron was devilish pride. "Better to reign in Moria than serve in Mordor," to paraphrase Milton. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-08-2005, 07:07 PM	#31
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	that is profound, maybe the Balrog was just to stupid to get out of Moria?? __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-08-2005, 07:54 PM	#33
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	it was just an idea... __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-09-2005, 10:22 AM	#35
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	who is Michael Martinez? ? __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-09-2005, 11:06 AM	#36
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	a mooter which has an awful lot of information about middel earth. he popps up sometimes, posts an awful lot of logic posts, and dissapear for some months. I guess he has not been on after you joined. __________________ Don't Panic! Last edited by Pytt : 01-09-2005 at 11:08 AM.

01-09-2005, 11:38 AM	#37
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	nope i don't think i've ever seen any of his posts __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-19-2005, 03:24 PM	#38
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	I enjoy his comment a lot. They always seem to make so much sence. It's a shame he keeps disappearing

01-19-2005, 04:12 PM	#40
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Well, we should consider the rent increase he would have had if he had upgraded to say, Osgiliath or Minas Morgul! And, he probably didn't want to move under the Misty Mountains with Gollum for a neighbor! So what choice did he have? Moria! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

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