Oh no hes gone for a cheasy ending (spoilers)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Well, I'm just going to say that The Lord of the Rings is a STORY. It is NOT a collection of themes. A story rooted deeply in Christian and Catholic worldview (I forget, which of the Apostles was a short, bearded, clown?), and influenced by certain aspects of old Pagan (especially Norse) belief. But the fact that it is influenced by something does not change the fact that it is, pure and simple, a STORY.

[Curufinwe]

Quite correct there are no thematic differences these are the essense of the authors vision. The film is from a perspective of plot in well over 90% agreement with in its details and settings with the literature. Even if certain characters and moviations are slightly altered how many of the characters actions are truly changed? Think of Aragorn for example. Peter Jackson made a movie that imparts Tolkiens values and maintains the vast hunk of plot without being mired down and constricted as an artist and he has shown the vision of Middle-Earth to a wider audience than it ever would have reached. Have you seen Ralph Bashki's attrocity of a film? His characters and dialogue and plot are almost exaclty the same as the literature and the movie is unwatchable.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Curufinwe
1) The film is from a perspective of plot in well over 90% agreement with in its details and settings with the literature. 2) Even if certain characters and moviations are slightly altered
3)His characters and dialogue and plot are almost exaclty the same as the literature and the movie is unwatchable.

1) FOTR, maybe 90%...TTT, no way.
2) Do me a favour. Watch the scenes with Faramir, and come back and tell me the characters are SLIGHTLY altered.
3) That's a matter of opinion.

[Curufinwe]

Faramir is more signifigantly altered for dramatic purpose I didnt like it I understood it you know his character has turned a corner when we see his defense of Ossgiliath and the causeway forts and his respect for Gandalf and defiance of his father I think he'll be okay. In any case you don't understand plot if you're talking about characterization these are two seperate aspects of a work get it straight. Tell me one setting or any single character that was in FOTR that was not in the book. Tell me how the plot and journey developed differently. In the TTT we had two scenes the journey to Osgiliath and the warg battle. I hated the warg battle but it was less than 10 minutes. The osgiliath scene was done for dramatic purpose but I don't like it either its just over 10 minutes. Thats 20 minutes of film in 6 hours of screentime 7 if you count the EE which we must if we're judging his artistic interpretation since he obviously would have included those scenes if he could. I dont know 90 percent seems fairly conservative maybe you should do the math?

[Indril Anarion]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
Ugh, just read that at TORN. Here's the link: http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1052497889
I was groaning aloud when I read this, and my Mum wanted to know what was wrong.
I didn't realise that when Arwen said to Aragorn in the FOTR that 'you will face the same evil, and you will defeat it', that she meant Sauron, I thought she meant the Ring. I hope this isn't true...but I'm doubtful.
And Saruman getting 'spiked'? Well there's no scouring, so I still think this will be the case.

NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!!

This has to be wrong! The Scouring of the Shire has to happen, it's one of the key events in the book! Not to mention one of my favorite ones! This has to be wrong!!!!!!!


If PJ removes it from the ending....he's going to get very nasty letters from me!!!!!!!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The absence of the Scouring is a pretty well established fact.

[Curufinwe]

True about the scouring he left that out just like crickhollow to bree but my point is he didnt really add much he just took what he thought was most important

[Elvengirl]

He just added a whole scene at Osgiliath, the fight scene on the way to Helm's Deep/ Aragorns cliff scene, numerous scenes with Arwen and Elrond........to name a few

[Indril Anarion]

*Begins to cry at the news of the absence of the Scouring*

[Gerbil]

Wow, I haven't posted in ages.
But a quick trawl through these threads and nothing's really changed :/

Bonjour peeps

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Curufinwe
True about the scouring he left that out just like crickhollow to bree but my point is he didnt really add much he just took what he thought was most important

But the Scouring is important. There is a change in the Hobbits who left the Shire and Crickhollow. You see their bravery and leadership in the Scouring of the Shire. It is important. Unless you take the focus away from the Hobbits and make their contributions minor to the plot.

[Aewionen]

I heard that 2!! I was soooo mad! I also read that Grima, after killing saruman, gets shot by Legolas. If that happens, Legolas fan-girls are going to go crazy for no reason because the hobbits kill wormtongue in the book.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Sween
Right just read a report and there seems to be a lot of this going around that saurons going to be at the black gates! this is a bit silly!

First off he doesnt need to be there! second why would he be there it totoally contradicts saurons method of managment!

what are your thoughts?

sauron needs to be in his fortress, he has plenty of servants( the dark messenger. ithink thats his name.) for one.
-hectorberlioz

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Mae govannen, hectorberlioz, and welcome to the Entmoot! I hope you have a good time here.

By the dark messenger, might you mean the Mouth of Sauron, or the Witch-king?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Are you saying that movie-goers are too dumb to grasp a "behind the stage" bad-guy?

Again: Are movie-goers too dumb for a bad-guy they don't see?

Yes and yes.

[Lefty Scaevola]

"second why would he be there it totoally contradicts saurons method of managment!"


Well, Sauron did command armies in person for much of his career.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
"second why would he be there it totoally contradicts saurons method of managment!"


Well, Sauron did command armies in person for much of his career.

Are we discussing JRRT's Sauron? Or PJ's Sauron? Hmmmm... only time I can recall Sauron actually facing his enemy was in the Sil, and he only did so when hard pressed, his back was against the wall and he had no other choice. Having Sauron come out to face Aragorn would most definitely contradict JRRT's Sauron.

But then again, I think PJ is trying to rewrite the classic anyway and put his mark (or make an attempt at such) on the tale. He doesn't have what it takes to make his own story, so he is mucking up JRRT's tale and putting his own stamp on it.

Ragnarok: you think that movie goers are too dumb to grasp JRRT's Sauron? That is sad. Perhaps, then, the story should never have been attempted for the screen.

However, I think you are wrong. History is full of truely evil dictators that sent soldiers to die for them in battle, never lifting a physical finger themselves to fight their enemy.

Who do you think the audience would hate more? An enemy that stands and fights along side his army, bravely risking his own life in the frey? Or a coward that sends his army to die for him as he sits comfortably and watches from a safe distance?

Aewionen: I agree, there's no reason to change the story and take the glory from the Hobbits and give it to Legolas. Legolas is not the hero of the book! But then again I believe PJ will do it (or has done it) to appease the 11 year old girls who are love struck with Orlando Bloom. Pretty sick if you ask me.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Ruinel
[Bonly time I can recall Sauron actually facing his enemy was in the Sil, [/B]

Sauron (a/k/a Gorthanaur) commanded the army that took Minas Tirith (The first age Noldorin one) from Oredreth, with his personal involvement and particularly his sorcery, necessary to drive out the Nolder under Oredreth. He likely had other front commands in the war of the jewels. He personally led him main army into Eriador in the War of Elves and Sauron and commanded the attack on Hollin and the seige and storming of Ost en Edhil. In that war he was twice nearly cut off and captured by the Numemoreans landing in his rear. I do not believe that is is clear wheather or not he was personally present at the battle of Dagorland in the war of the last Alliance, but it is likely so. At the end of the siege of Barad Dur, he pesonally led the sortie out of the fortrees and engage hi duels with Gil Galad and Elendil. He was a bloody hands on commander, when he had hands.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
I do not believe that is is clear wheather or not he was personally present at the battle of Dagorland in the war of the last Alliance, but it is likely so.

The Last Alliance? You don't mean Gil-Galad and Elendil, do you? He was present there; the Ring was cut from His finger. That was also, I believe, a last, desperate stand, in the heart of His lands, beset upon and overrun by the enemy from the West. Also, someone presented a quote, I believe, that said that only at the Final Victory would He come forth.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Last Alliance? You don't mean Gil-Galad and Elendil, do you? He was present there; the Ring was cut from His finger.

The war of the last alliance was from 3429 to 3441 SA. The battle of Dagorland was in 3334 SA, 7 years before Sauron fought Gil-Galad and Elendil on Mount doom. Nothing in the Appedicies not the HoME squarely state Sauron personally commanded the "Host of Sauron" at Dagorland, but it is a reasonable inference.