Why did the Balrog stay in Moria?

[Attalus]

I don't care if he had wings or not, why did he stay in Moria after the Dwarves were driven out? I am quite sure that Sauron would have welcomed him with open arms (one with a hidden knife in it). Did he imagine that he was holding a fortress for Melkor should he return? Did it remind him of Utumno or Thangorobrind? It just seems curious. Even Smaug got out a bit.

[Findegil]

Well, what he had done for centuries before was hidding before the wrath of the Valar. Imaging that since the War of Wrath he had not have any news from outside, at least not enough to understand that the Valar had turned her eyes away form Middle-Earth a bit. Thus he was smaybe still hidding in that nice little hole after he had "repacified" it.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Nurvingiel]

Also, he would have had no particular allegiance to Sauron.

Maybe, since he was hiding from the Valar, he wouldn't want to attract unwanted attention by helping to take over the world.

[Lizra]

I just assumed he liked it down there, who needs a "boss"!

[mewhmag]

if the fellowship would have taken the way over the mountains, which was not possible of course, they would not have encountered the balrog. the things that happened to Gandalf would not have happened. Saruman would stay the white...

see?

[Valandil]

Remember too that he had 'just' woken up from a 5400 year nap... so he hangs around for another 1040 years...

[Earniel]

I can imagine the army of the Valar and the ensuing destruction of the Thangorodrim scared the living daylight out of him if he scrawled away so deep under Moria. He probably didn't want to risk drawing any more attention to him at the time. I also have the feeling he deliberately stayed in Moria to avoid being drafted again into Sauron's forces. In Moria he was lord over all, outside Moria the best he could probably do was be second in command under Sauron.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I can imagine the army of the Valar and the ensuing destruction of the Thangorodrim scared the living daylight out of him if he scrawled away so deep under Moria. He probably didn't want to risk drawing any more attention to him at the time. I also have the feeling he deliberately stayed in Moria to avoid being drafted again into Sauron's forces. In Moria he was lord over all, outside Moria the best he could probably do was be second in command under Sauron.

I still take issue with the notion that the Balrog is in any way subserviant to Sauron. They were both Maiar, and probably both just as old, being seduced by Morgoth in the Elder days. Hell, Gandalf and Saruman are Maiar too.

Their can be evil creatures in ME that are not in alliance. And I imagine sauron, while he would maintain some of his former command he had during the war of wrath, the balrog also had great power, and there is no reason to suggest that it even knows about Saurons survival of that war.

[Attalus]

I think that Sauron knew all about the Balrog. Orc spies in Moria would soon have sussed that out. How much interaction with the Orcs the Balrog had is open to speculation, though the fact that they were afraid of it suggests that there was not that much. There were probably some toadies to it, but I doubt that it would tolerate fools, at all.

[Michael Martinez]

What are your feelings on basic Balrog psychology and motivation?

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

What are your feelings on basic Balrog psychology and motivation?

"Crush! Kill! Destroy!"
"Dominate! Defeat! Burn! Obliterate!"

Just to hazard a wild guess.

[Shelob's Hubby]

Why would the Balrog want to leave Moria? He was the lord of his domain, his time was his own, and he had the occasional orc to snack on.

[Pytt]

why in the good name of bobby sue is there two almost exactly alike posts going on at the same time?
i think about the post called sauron,moria and the balrog, or something very close to that.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

What are your feelings on basic Balrog psychology and motivation?

Well, as you have pointed out on so many occasions, they are angelic beings, turned devils. They should have high level intelligence accompanied by malevolence and a lasting hatred for any being doing the will of Iluvatar or the Valar. JRRT says somewhere that the Balrog does not speak, but that is just to make his menace more ... frightening, I guess. They would be completely subservient to the will of Melkor, though not to the degree that the Nine were to Sauron. Judging by the alarcrity that they took to the skies to succor Melkor/Morgoth when Ungoliant was after him, they were very protective and not just as an extension of his will, or I'll bet he would have called them earlier. They seem to have great proficiency in magic, by Gandalf's testimony. They knew enough about generalship for Gothmog to be leader of Morgoth's armies, and enough about fighting to kill Fëanor, who was no lightweight. The fact that the Balrogs were hanging around Utumno, waiting for Melkor to reappear and not having split up to carve out individual kingdoms for themselves argues that they did not have individual ambitions, only to serve Melkor. This could be part of the answer to why the Balrog stayed in Moria: it really couldn't think of anything else to do, though this is the essential incongruity behind my question. Why would an angelic being choose to hang around a deserted Dwarven mine/mansion when great events were stirring in the outside world? What is your take on it?

[Michael Martinez]

I think that the story doesn't provide any motivation for the Balrog to leave Moria. It comes down to personal desire and ambition. It's primary objective seemed to be to avoid being punished by the Valar. Perhaps it was just seeking to accomplish as little as possible.

What if the Balrog was actually on the long slow path to recovery? What if it was unintentionally drawn into conflict with that recovery through its compulsion to act when the Fellowship entered Moria?

For example, Sauron strove to change his ways at the beginning of the Second Age, but eventually he fell back into old habits. The Balrog need not have been as repentent as Sauron had become, but it could certainly have been trying to avoid the spotlight precisely because it didn't want to become a dark lord.

Hence, it would have motivation to stay where it was from two directions: avoid drawing the attention of the Valar AND avoid drawing Sauron's wrath.

The curious thing about Balrogs is that they don't seem to act without direction, which is perhaps one reason why so many people regard them as little better than beasts. It could be that their malevolence has become so manifest that their thoughts are restricted to emotional cognition. Perhaps they really have abandoned rational thought, except when they are given direction by some higher purpose.

It could be like they were on an emotional binge of hatred, intolerance, cruelty, etc., and only occasionally surfaced to "sober up" whenever the alarm klaxons rang, or when Morgoth gave them specific missions.

So, perhaps, rather than being nihlistic or doministic like Morgoth and Sauron (respectively), the Balrogs could have been sort of hate-driven hedonists (or something like hedonists, with their focus and drives centering on anger and other dark emotions).

[Nurvingiel]

That's very interesting Michael. I think that not only was he unmotivated to help Sauron, but he also didn't have enough time!

Dwarves wake him up from a very long nap, he demolishes their kingdom, then before he has a chance to get his bearings, he loses a battle with an Istari!

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

The curious thing about Balrogs is that they don't seem to act without direction, which is perhaps one reason why so many people regard them as little better than beasts. It could be that their malevolence has become so manifest that their thoughts are restricted to emotional cognition. Perhaps they really have abandoned rational thought, except when they are given direction by some higher purpose.

How would this fit fit with Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, being a chief captain and army commander for Morgoth?

[Ñólendil]

Seems to fit in fine. The "higher purpose" would be he orders Morgoth gives Gothmog.

[Attalus]

Yeah, Morgoth orders Gothmog to be a general and he says, "You got it!"

[matthew]

Michael should be a shrink (If he isn't already)
I don't think the story gives a whole lot of reasons for the balrog to be there. I basically would agree with Michael that he is sort of "without orders", just waiting there.
I hate how people make the Balrog out to be lesser than Sauron. He was in the same order, and he wouldn't have been taking orders from him. It was just that the Balrog was such a servant of Morgoth that it had no interest in starting an empire, while Sauron did.


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