Magic in stories

[Willow Oran]

What are your views/advice on using magic in a fantasy novel?

I used to have half the characters in my stories using it but then I decided I didn't like it and re-constructed things so that magic use was much more limited. How do you all deal with magic in your writings?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Copied from another thread:

As far as magic is concerned, that is the matter which has been changing the most, in all likelihood. All along, most of the various races have had special, magic-like abilities. Originally, there were a good deal of magic-users, separated into groups depending on which of the Seven Schools of magic they specialised in. Then magic was only practiced by a very select few (i.e. the fae folk were able to manipulate many bright and colorful magics, whereas Wizards whom some thought to be fae in the forms of old men ( ) commanded a rather subtler magic. Then it got to where magic was not practiced at all, except for the magical abilities of the various races. Right now, it's evolved to the point where [magic] is a deep and arcane art, practiced by a very few, who must devote their lives to it's studies to become masters (magic-users all being old men and women). Also, there are certain other forms of magic which have remained fairly static, the "black" magics. These magics include the study, summoning, and attempted control of demons (demonology), the animation of corpses (necromancy), and other, generic black arts (sorcery). The overall view of magic has always been that in the beginning Eltarn imbued Lisman with this force, which can be used for good or for ill (except when no-body could use magic.)

Also, there is added a form of magic very loosely based on what I know of Jewish Kabbalah, in that it is powered by the invocation of various names of Eltarn (maybe also of the Gods). This magic is practiced almost exclusively by those of certain monastic orders, as a "fantasy depiction" of a combination of scholarly knowledge and piety.

[Silverstripe]

I usually try to keep magic rather limited in my worlds, although there are some exceptions to that, two in particular.

In the first of two stories, I said (basically to be funny, though the story became more serious than I'd first intended it to be) that EVERY person in that world could do magic. So, because everyone could do it, no one thought much of it. And then I "learned" why magic was so common, and how it could disappear, or be stolen by a single person or a few people ... which formed the basis for the main problem my characters faced in that story.

Also, one of my stories took place in a small community, where both humans and dragons dwelled. With the humans, most of the elders were non-magical, but most of the younger citizens were mages. The older humans in that community were mainly those who had left their old kingdom with their families, due to a decree by that kingdom's monarch. The dragons had given them refuge, and the kingdom's ruler (a fairly noble person despite her flaws), honored her treaty with the dragons and did not attempt to "recover" those humans from the dragons' territory.

Originally, the protagonist of that story was one of the most powerful of the young magicals, but when I was writing the early history of that community, there was one non-magical child (named Violet, at the time) whom I really grew to love, more than my protagonist. After Violet "showed" me how well she adapted to being one of the few non-magical kids, and what it was like to be in that postition in the first place, I realized that she was the true main character.

[Lief Erikson]

I have a lot of wizards in my book, and only a very few dark wizards. I think the situation of magic in my world is very comparable to the way the Force is set up in Star Wars. I don't mean in terms of the things people do with it; magic is a lot more powerful in my book than the weilders of the Force are in Star Wars. But the way the Jedi have a good deal of ability to eliminate enemies, except when they're totally outnumbered. And the way there are many light Jedi and only a very few dark Jedi. And in the way the dark Jedi are behind the scenes manipulating things, and not very often getting into combat except in rare, strategic attacks.

That's pretty much the way magic is in my book, at the point in time I'm writing about now. And just like the Jedi Council had influence over events, the Rainbow Council has influence over events. Only the Rainbow Council is in charge of the country and has large political power and a huge network of alliances; it's not just a government authorized police group like the Jedi were.

[Fingolfinrox]

I agree with whoever said that magic should be limited. I think it should be pretty much reserved for climactic scenes and battles. Usually its the bad guys who have lots of magic in my stories, and the good guys just have to try and beat em anyhow.

[Laurus Nobilis]

As I said in another thread, There are different kinds of magic in my stories. Elves and other races of that kind perform magic in a subtle way; wizards, on the other hand, like to be flashy. :P

What I do to limit it is try to think of what characters *can't* do, so I can't go overboard and give everything a magical solution- there'd be no plot if I did!

Usually its the bad guys who have lots of magic in my stories, and the good guys just have to try and beat em anyhow.

I do something similar in my stories. I do hve good guys who can perform magic, but humans can't do magic of any kind, and they have to use their own cleverness to solve problems. It makes things much more interesting.

[Aralyn]

I've posted on one like this before and I still believe that you should put limitations on character's that have magic.

[Mark of Cenla]

I am limiting the use of magic in my book. Some characters will have an inborn ability to tap into magic, while others will have special, specific abilities, e.g. a shapeshifter. Peace.

[LuthienTinuviel]

usually all my plots have to do with modern people in the real world, so there's not alot of magic... but think that eventually it would be fun to just create something like that.. but i would most likely take a more hidden secret approach to it.

[Fred Baggins]

I used to think Magic was alright, but know I don't know what to think. I guess it's not harmful if the use is kept to a minimum. Of course that's entirely my opinion and view, I'm not saying it's the only right way.

[Lief Erikson]

These things are to keep things on a more even, or dramatic level, correct?

We definitely have to have limitations on our magic. Having someone with magic able to do anything leaves very little room for story or for struggle between good and bad characters.

The magic, though, can be fine while it's strong if you've planned it that way. It's a matter of taste whether or not you want to make it strong or not, though strong magic does probably take more work to plan out then weak or subtle magic.

[Lief Erikson]

As for myself, I tend to favor strong magic . That's only in my novel though; subtle magic is also really great.

It really depends upon how affectively it's been used as to how much I like it. Subtle magic in Tolkien was used to wonderful, wonderful affect. Strong magic in Wheel of Time was used to very good affect also.

[Entlover]

This is a great forum! Possibly it will prove to be the end and cynosure of the Entmoot.

IMO, magic is like candy -- you don't want a steady diet of it or it gets real boring and nonnutritious. But a little at a crucial moment is wonderful - as having Gandalf able to start fires -- actually his magic is pretty limited when you think about it. Sauron has more apparent power, with the Ringwraiths and the ring itself.

None of the races of men, dwarves and hobbits use magic, only the elves who seem to treat it more as a technology, denying that its really magic.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I disagree. Spells were laid by Men upon the blades of Westernesse found in the Barrow-wights. And Gandalf said he once knew every spell in the tongues of Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs, I think.

[Ninquelote]

I really think the only magic in middle-earth is only a shadow, a small bit of what was left from the first age and before.

[Agalayth]

In my story, magic is used extensively by the Elves, especially the High Elves of the country Mundara. In the story, you can only use magic when there is light from the Sun or Moon, which the Elves worship greatly. So when it's a night of the new moon, or if clouds block the moon or sun, magic is not usable. There are a few who can use magic in darkness, named Urion, Shel'Kaara and Amhrobis: A High Elf, Wood Elf and Dark Elf.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

For some reason, I seem to remember Amhrobis being a god?

[Entlover]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Gandalf said he once knew every spell in the tongues of Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs, I think.

Spells are one thing, true effective magic another. Vikings (and many others) used spells, but it was just wishful thinking.
If Middle-earth is really our world in its prehistory, then spells would be no more effective then than they are now. Except for Elves, who are all gone away now.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Why do you say that? Why would Gandalf bother to mention it, when talking about spells to open doors, if it was just poppycock and pishtosh?

What did you think
"Edro, edro!"

"Annon edhellen, edro hi ammen!
Fennas nogothrim, lasto beth lammen!"

"naur an edraith ammen!"

"Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!"

were?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Many times he repeated these words in different order, or varied them. Then he tried other spells, one after another, speaking now faster and louder, now soft and slow. Then he spoke many single words of Elvish speech.