My hero...the Balrog???

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 03-10-2003, 10:23 PM

Has it ever occurred to any of you that, at least in the movies, the Balrog plays a direct part in saving the fellowship?

They were facing certain slaughter in the main hall of Dwarrowdelf, when the orcs and goblins were coming from everywhere. Then the Balrogs lets forth his growl and they all scattered. He saved their butts bigtime.

When he is chasing them and causes large stones to come crashing down and break the stairway, he cuts off a possible path for the orcs to give chase.

Then of course, the bridge scene. Although Gandalf falls temporarily, that route is also cut off for giving chase.

Maybe had he lived, he should have been invited to Aragorn's wedding and join in the festivities!

Celebriel · 03-10-2003, 10:35 PM

Do these instances agree with the book?

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 03-10-2003, 10:50 PM

Well, the bridge of khazad-dum is broken in the book.

But, the stampede of thousands of orcs from everywhere and surrounding them hopelessly is not. Nor is the part where the stairway they are running on is broken apart by falling debris.

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 03-10-2003, 10:53 PM

I might add that I really liked the stairway and the falling debris part and the part about being surrounded.

But - I hate the way the orcs come from the ceiling and scale the pillars. That urks me to no end. The scene really works, though, when the Balrog scares them all away, and when the expressions on the faces of all the fellowship shows the real terror they are feeling.

Overall, Moria surpassed all my expectations...

Celebriel · 03-10-2003, 11:12 PM

I loved the use of miniatures. But one CG part bgs me, when they run from the fire and Gandalf stares down the Balrog and then runs.

Anywho, the ord-close-ups were good.

sobe1izard · 03-11-2003, 10:13 AM

Thats a very interesting point you make. In fact if you research the books enough and understand tolkien, the balrog was not only the final test of Gandalf the grey, but the almighty creator sent the Balrog to transform Gandalf into the Protector and leader of the war known as Gandalf the white. Gandalf is actually an angel sent to protect the free peples of the planet.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-11-2003, 10:35 AM

Actually, he was sent to unite the Free Peoples of Middle-earth (the North-western section) in the fight against Sauron, I believe.

Iluvatar sent the Balrog? I don't remember that!

BeardofPants · 03-11-2003, 03:03 PM

Pfft. Lets see some evidence for that, mister! As far as I know, the balrog fled from the wreakage of the first age. And IIRC, one of Tolkien's letters says that even he isn't sure how the balrog came to be in Moria. To bad I'm too lazy to look it up.

***Jonathan*** · 03-11-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balrog_of_Morgoth
I hate the way the orcs come from the ceiling and scale the pillars. That urks me to no end. The scene really works, though, when the Balrog scares them all away, and when the expressions on the faces of all the fellowship shows the real terror they are feeling.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the orcs coming from the ceiling, weren't they goblins?
Is there a difference between goblins and orcs or are they the same race?

Can someone confirm that the balrogs were formerly maiar?

I really loved the first part of the TTT movie, were Gandalf was battling the balrog in free fall. Some people think it was bizarre to see an old man fight like Super man against that diablo-looking creature, but I think that the fight was very well done indeed and a pleasure to watch.

Dunadan · 03-11-2003, 03:38 PM

It says in the Silmarillion that the balrogs were maiar.

I totally disagree about the collapsing stair thing. It was completely ridiculous: wasn't there enough drama already? Or was it just an excuse to get some dwarf-tossing jokes in?

However, I did like the goblin hordes swarming out of every crevice. (I think that goblins were just northern orcs.)

I agree with you about the start of TTT - I couldn't believe I was seeing it. Can't wait for the DVD!

cheers

d.

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 03-11-2003, 11:08 PM

Actually, I think they were goblins, if we want to be technical. But my point is this: I don't care what they are, they shouldn't have some sort of magical, gravity defying ability to just run up and down smooth columns and cling to the roof like spiders. It's just not feasible.

I think the falling debris was really cool. That with the screams of the Balrog following them and apparently looking for a way to get to them (since he was so huge) was rockin!

Melko Belcha · 03-13-2003, 01:49 PM

I agree about the Orcs coming from the ceilling, it just dosen't fit my impression of Orcs. And yes Orcs and goblins are the same race, Tolkien make that perfectly clear.
As far as the stairs I HATED that scence more the any other. Many because I hear PJ talk about being stressed for time and he throws in a huge action scence(theater version) that is not in the book instead of stuff to build the characters, namely the gift giving scene.

He talks about cutting stuff from the book that doesn't effect the story (Barrow Downs, Old Forest) to throw in action scence that have nothing to do with the story. Can you tell me, other then the visual excitment, why the stairway part was more important to the story the the gift giving?

As far as CG the stairway was great, but it had nothing to do with the story and the time they spent making that scence could have been used to finish Gollum instead of having a green creature in Moria.

Pimpernel · 03-13-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
I agree about the Orcs coming from the ceilling, it just dosen't fit my impression of Orcs.

i thought the ceiling orcs were pretty kewl...and yesh i have read the books. but i thought that sorta added to the suspense..
but i agree with you about the whole thing: if PJ wanted to cut out things like the gift giving and bombadil just to add that in then kazoo poo on him...

Melko Belcha · 03-14-2003, 12:02 PM

The Orcs in Moria were just to inscet like for me, I know PJ said he wanted them to look like cockroachers, but I just didn't get it. My vison of Orcs is just different then what they did in the movie. I picture them the way Tolkien stated in Letters
Letter 210

Quote:

The Orcs are definitely stated to be corruptions of the 'human' form seen in Elves and Men. They are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.

People will interpret it differently but I don't see them as so beastly. Same as the Balrog. Again from the same letter.

Quote:

The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all.

It makes me wonder how much research PJ did or if he just didn't care.

aragorn_is_mine · 03-14-2003, 01:18 PM

Lol, Now that i think about it, that is very true, apart from the bit where Aragorn would have invited him to his wedding, the Balrog would probably argue with everyone..oh yeah not to mention the constant flames.

Legoles · 03-14-2003, 07:45 PM

You know I never thought of it that way but I really dont think the Balrog would'ove gotten invited........... probably cause it is big and scary!!!!!!!!!!!

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-14-2003, 08:03 PM

Ya think??

gimli7410 · 03-16-2003, 12:34 PM

im wondering, when gandalf says that swords are know use here, how come he kills the balrog in TTT with his sword?

Anadriewen · 02-07-2004, 04:41 PM

Well, he it shows that he somehow catches lightining with his sword to kill him...But I doubt that thats the right answer.

Mrs Maggot · 02-14-2004, 10:22 PM

Hmmm… maybe Glamdring is a special sword…maybe it has powers that other swords don't?

03-10-2003, 10:23 PM	#1
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	My hero...the Balrog??? Has it ever occurred to any of you that, at least in the movies, the Balrog plays a direct part in saving the fellowship? They were facing certain slaughter in the main hall of Dwarrowdelf, when the orcs and goblins were coming from everywhere. Then the Balrogs lets forth his growl and they all scattered. He saved their butts bigtime. When he is chasing them and causes large stones to come crashing down and break the stairway, he cuts off a possible path for the orcs to give chase. Then of course, the bridge scene. Although Gandalf falls temporarily, that route is also cut off for giving chase. Maybe had he lived, he should have been invited to Aragorn's wedding and join in the festivities! __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

03-10-2003, 10:35 PM	#2
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	Do these instances agree with the book? __________________ ~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________

03-10-2003, 10:50 PM	#3
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	Well, the bridge of khazad-dum is broken in the book. But, the stampede of thousands of orcs from everywhere and surrounding them hopelessly is not. Nor is the part where the stairway they are running on is broken apart by falling debris. __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

03-10-2003, 10:53 PM	#4
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	I might add that I really liked the stairway and the falling debris part and the part about being surrounded. But - I hate the way the orcs come from the ceiling and scale the pillars. That urks me to no end. The scene really works, though, when the Balrog scares them all away, and when the expressions on the faces of all the fellowship shows the real terror they are feeling. Overall, Moria surpassed all my expectations... __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

03-10-2003, 11:12 PM	#5
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	I loved the use of miniatures. But one CG part bgs me, when they run from the fire and Gandalf stares down the Balrog and then runs. Anywho, the ord-close-ups were good. __________________ ~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________

03-11-2003, 10:13 AM	#6
sobe1izard Sapling Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1	Thats a very interesting point you make. In fact if you research the books enough and understand tolkien, the balrog was not only the final test of Gandalf the grey, but the almighty creator sent the Balrog to transform Gandalf into the Protector and leader of the war known as Gandalf the white. Gandalf is actually an angel sent to protect the free peples of the planet.

03-11-2003, 10:35 AM	#7
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Actually, he was sent to unite the Free Peoples of Middle-earth (the North-western section) in the fight against Sauron, I believe. Iluvatar sent the Balrog? I don't remember that! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-11-2003, 03:03 PM	#8
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Pfft. Lets see some evidence for that, mister! As far as I know, the balrog fled from the wreakage of the first age. And IIRC, one of Tolkien's letters says that even he isn't sure how the balrog came to be in Moria. To bad I'm too lazy to look it up. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-11-2003, 03:38 PM	#10
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	It says in the Silmarillion that the balrogs were maiar. I totally disagree about the collapsing stair thing. It was completely ridiculous: wasn't there enough drama already? Or was it just an excuse to get some dwarf-tossing jokes in? However, I did like the goblin hordes swarming out of every crevice. (I think that goblins were just northern orcs.) I agree with you about the start of TTT - I couldn't believe I was seeing it. Can't wait for the DVD! cheers d.

03-11-2003, 11:08 PM	#11
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	Actually, I think they were goblins, if we want to be technical. But my point is this: I don't care what they are, they shouldn't have some sort of magical, gravity defying ability to just run up and down smooth columns and cling to the roof like spiders. It's just not feasible. I think the falling debris was really cool. That with the screams of the Balrog following them and apparently looking for a way to get to them (since he was so huge) was rockin! __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

03-13-2003, 01:49 PM	#12
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	I agree about the Orcs coming from the ceilling, it just dosen't fit my impression of Orcs. And yes Orcs and goblins are the same race, Tolkien make that perfectly clear. As far as the stairs I HATED that scence more the any other. Many because I hear PJ talk about being stressed for time and he throws in a huge action scence(theater version) that is not in the book instead of stuff to build the characters, namely the gift giving scene. He talks about cutting stuff from the book that doesn't effect the story (Barrow Downs, Old Forest) to throw in action scence that have nothing to do with the story. Can you tell me, other then the visual excitment, why the stairway part was more important to the story the the gift giving? As far as CG the stairway was great, but it had nothing to do with the story and the time they spent making that scence could have been used to finish Gollum instead of having a green creature in Moria.

03-14-2003, 01:18 PM	#15
aragorn_is_mine Sapling Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	Lol, Now that i think about it, that is very true, apart from the bit where Aragorn would have invited him to his wedding, the Balrog would probably argue with everyone..oh yeah not to mention the constant flames. __________________ burger has no king, burger needs no king

03-14-2003, 07:45 PM	#16
Legoles Goddess of the evil smilies Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Somewhere where it's hot, and icky Posts: 1,587	Re: My hero...the Balrog??? You know I never thought of it that way but I really dont think the Balrog would'ove gotten invited........... probably cause it is big and scary!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ BTW PADFOOT LIVES!

03-14-2003, 08:03 PM	#17
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Ya think?? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-16-2003, 12:34 PM	#18
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	im wondering, when gandalf says that swords are know use here, how come he kills the balrog in TTT with his sword? __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

02-07-2004, 04:41 PM	#19
Anadriewen Enting Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I'm not telling Posts: 56	Well, he it shows that he somehow catches lightining with his sword to kill him...But I doubt that thats the right answer. __________________ Sorry for not posting in such a long time. Long story short i forgot my password.

02-14-2004, 10:22 PM	#20
Mrs Maggot Enting Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Shire…Ok, western Sydney … & proud of it Posts: 85	Hmmm… maybe Glamdring is a special sword…maybe it has powers that other swords don't? __________________ Anyone looking for some mushrooms?

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