FOTR the movie: what's your beef??

Nibs · 02-01-2002, 07:01 PM

How I loathe the ones in here that only deal criticism to FOTR. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Not to say that all you who are solely complaining didn't... rather, I think it deserves FAR more praise than perfectionist disapproval.

Arwen's role... well, ain't that a touchy subject (not to mention the most popular). There is still a lot of footage to come, and I don't think I'll have a well-formed opinion until I see the other two as well. I think it was a good move to involve her in the story a bit more, merely replacing a very minor character (Glorfindel, if my memory serves me), to establish her attributes.

While reading the trilogy, I didn't feel as though I knew anything about Arwen, 'cept she's a radiant elf-maiden that has the hots for Aragorn. I think ol' Phil had this in mind and tried to involve her in the story before the wedding.

In conclusion, that's my opinion. Take it for all it's worth. Don't judge a book by it's first chapter, or a movie trilogy by it's first installment.

LuthienTinuviel · 02-01-2002, 07:07 PM

well arewn SHOULDN'T have more footage to come inTTT... not if PJ really tries to stay true to the books...
im not an expertt by far on LotR stuff ( nor am i goood at spelling)
but arwen realyl shouldn't have takin frodo's little ray of sunshine.. i mean, it's all downhill from when he gets injuerd at weathertop, right..? im prolly forgetting a moment or two, so go easy on me if i missed a spot)
now im afraid that people will see frodo as weak. i mean that was a good "proving moment" that even though they are short, hobbits are very kindhearted and soley good creatures.
but i think that belongs to another post.. sorry

otherwise i loved the movie.. i am seeing it AGAIN on sunday..

hmm ya think they'll let me sneak a lil camera into the theatre?

Nibs · 02-01-2002, 07:15 PM

Your quotes make me happy, Luthien. Very happy.

LuthienTinuviel · 02-01-2002, 07:18 PM

oi!
please i hope there was no sarcasm in there..
i cannot deal with sarcasm and the fever...

*screams of agony*

sorry, im a dopey drama geek

Nibs · 02-01-2002, 07:23 PM

Hey, I saw some definite praise for the film there. Few and far-between, it is.

That last message wasn't meant to be sarcastic; they do make me happy. Unless, of course, I was sarcastic about being sarcastic (think about THAT for a while).

LuthienTinuviel · 02-01-2002, 07:25 PM

i can't thinki..
the fever the fever!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

ok, that's done.. yes.. i LOVED Lothlorien.. that was one of my favourite scenes..

Laurelyn · 02-01-2002, 07:42 PM

Luthien Tinuviel:
OK, riiiiiiiiiiiiight . . .
And Nibs, thinking about being sarcastic about being sarcastic about being sarcastic what? Maybe I shouldn't have thought about it for a while.

Laurelyn · 02-01-2002, 07:43 PM

Oh, and Welcome to the Moot, Nibs!!!!

samwise of the shire · 02-01-2002, 07:46 PM

I LOVED Rivendell. I think that it was my favorite set in the whole movie. It wasn't all happy cutsie go lucky Shirey(I LOVED the Shire as well dont get me wrong. I would like living there what with it's rusticness and quiantness and simpleness)but it wasn't all serious shivery greyish like Lothlorien. It was full of light and goldenness and went well with the idea of the age Of Elves coming to a close. It protrayed the combination of reading,writing,eating,thinkg all rolled into one. Very nice.
I though Frodo was very well portrayed and so was Sam. Actually so were ALL the Hobbits come to think of it. I want to see them in more movies now they've been in a Blockbuster. They were just cute and quaint and BRAVE. The Courage of the Hobbits was shown. And not to mention they were CUTE. Their ages were well portrayed too, I think.
Sam

jerseydevil · 02-08-2002, 02:56 AM

I'm probably one of the one's you're referring to.

The movie had it's good points - special effects, music, costuming and location.

But the movie is far from perfect and as LOTR it falls far short of bringing the heart and soul of the books to life - IMHO.

People disagree - doesn't bother me.

I've seen it a ton of times because it's Lord of the Rings. I've been trying to like it and I try to seperate it from the books. But the cliches annoy me, Pippin and Merry grate on my nerves and Gandalf goes around as an old man that can barely find his way around. Not to mention that he is talked down to by Elrond. When Gandalf is talking to Saruman he looks like a whipped dog walking with his tail tucked between his legs.

There is very little character development and most of the characters were either dumbed down (Pippin & Merry) or made weaker (Frodo, Aragorn and Gandalf). In place of dialog and character development - extended action scenes took their place. It's nonstop action.

And the worst change to the movie - the Flight to the Ford. What Jackson did to that scene is unforgiveavle and was completely unnecessary. Fine give Arwen more screen time - but within one scene Jackson had weakened two characters (Aragorn and Frodo). Frodo being strong enough to stand up to the Black Riders at the Ford of Bruinen after being stabbed by a Morgul Blade is one of key points in the whole story.

Nazgûl Queen · 02-08-2002, 05:41 AM

I was irritated by some of the changes like Arwen and Tom Bombadil, but i recognised the neccessity.
The changes in frodo's "brave" parts really got to me...

But the movie still had all the heart and soul of the book. The characters weren't as developed as I'd like but they were still excellent, the scenery and acting and script and music were beautiful... and it just felt RIGHT!

Thats why i have a desperate need to see it again, because it tells us the book in a way that really brings it to you and makes it seep into your heart even more...

Pailan · 02-08-2002, 11:30 AM

How many threads do we have going that focus on the whole arwen/ford/livtyler thingy? I loved the movie... warts and all. I actually had started a thread which was dedicated to discussing what people really enjoyed. Hmmm wait a sec.... yes it's here.
It is fun to defend the short comings of the movie because on the whole it is well done. But it does become tiresome to read thread after thread that devolves into Arwen bashing. They start out good, but 15 posts later it's all "flight to the fords sucked". Maybe I should change my handle to Arwen Friend, or Tyler Liker. *pulls out clumps of own hair*

jerseydevil · 02-08-2002, 11:50 AM

Well when a thread is asking for critism of the movie - Flight to the Ford is the worst change that Jackson made. To be trying to reply to a thread that is asking "what's your beef? and not mention the Arwen changes is impossible.

I have a lot of other problems with the movie too. It was an okay movie - but it wasn't great.

Hopefully the other movies will be better - but Jackson aready completed them basically - so I doubt there will be much difference. I hope Gandalf is more commanding, I hope Aragorn is less of a whimp, I hope that Merry and Pippin are less annoying.

I went in wanting to like it, but the moment that Pippin and Merry talked and Gandalf gave those weird facial expressions - it was downhill.

02-01-2002, 07:01 PM	#1
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	FOTR the movie: what's your beef?? How I loathe the ones in here that only deal criticism to FOTR. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Not to say that all you who are solely complaining didn't... rather, I think it deserves FAR more praise than perfectionist disapproval. Arwen's role... well, ain't that a touchy subject (not to mention the most popular). There is still a lot of footage to come, and I don't think I'll have a well-formed opinion until I see the other two as well. I think it was a good move to involve her in the story a bit more, merely replacing a very minor character (Glorfindel, if my memory serves me), to establish her attributes. While reading the trilogy, I didn't feel as though I knew anything about Arwen, 'cept she's a radiant elf-maiden that has the hots for Aragorn. I think ol' Phil had this in mind and tried to involve her in the story before the wedding. In conclusion, that's my opinion. Take it for all it's worth. Don't judge a book by it's first chapter, or a movie trilogy by it's first installment. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

02-01-2002, 07:07 PM	#2
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	well arewn SHOULDN'T have more footage to come inTTT... not if PJ really tries to stay true to the books... im not an expertt by far on LotR stuff ( nor am i goood at spelling) but arwen realyl shouldn't have takin frodo's little ray of sunshine.. i mean, it's all downhill from when he gets injuerd at weathertop, right..? im prolly forgetting a moment or two, so go easy on me if i missed a spot) now im afraid that people will see frodo as weak. i mean that was a good "proving moment" that even though they are short, hobbits are very kindhearted and soley good creatures. but i think that belongs to another post.. sorry otherwise i loved the movie.. i am seeing it AGAIN on sunday.. hmm ya think they'll let me sneak a lil camera into the theatre? __________________

02-01-2002, 07:15 PM	#3
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	Your quotes make me happy, Luthien. Very happy. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

02-01-2002, 07:18 PM	#4
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	oi! please i hope there was no sarcasm in there.. i cannot deal with sarcasm and the fever... screams of agony sorry, im a dopey drama geek __________________

02-01-2002, 07:23 PM	#5
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	Hey, I saw some definite praise for the film there. Few and far-between, it is. That last message wasn't meant to be sarcastic; they do make me happy. Unless, of course, I was sarcastic about being sarcastic (think about THAT for a while). __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

02-01-2002, 07:25 PM	#6
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	hahaha i can't thinki.. the fever the fever! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!! ok, that's done.. yes.. i LOVED Lothlorien.. that was one of my favourite scenes.. __________________

02-01-2002, 07:42 PM	#7
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Luthien Tinuviel: OK, riiiiiiiiiiiiight . . . And Nibs, thinking about being sarcastic about being sarcastic about being sarcastic what? Maybe I shouldn't have thought about it for a while. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

02-01-2002, 07:43 PM	#8
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Oh, and Welcome to the Moot, Nibs!!!! __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

02-01-2002, 07:46 PM	#9
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	I LOVED Rivendell. I think that it was my favorite set in the whole movie. It wasn't all happy cutsie go lucky Shirey(I LOVED the Shire as well dont get me wrong. I would like living there what with it's rusticness and quiantness and simpleness)but it wasn't all serious shivery greyish like Lothlorien. It was full of light and goldenness and went well with the idea of the age Of Elves coming to a close. It protrayed the combination of reading,writing,eating,thinkg all rolled into one. Very nice. I though Frodo was very well portrayed and so was Sam. Actually so were ALL the Hobbits come to think of it. I want to see them in more movies now they've been in a Blockbuster. They were just cute and quaint and BRAVE. The Courage of the Hobbits was shown. And not to mention they were CUTE. Their ages were well portrayed too, I think. Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

02-08-2002, 02:56 AM	#10
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I'm probably one of the one's you're referring to. The movie had it's good points - special effects, music, costuming and location. But the movie is far from perfect and as LOTR it falls far short of bringing the heart and soul of the books to life - IMHO. People disagree - doesn't bother me. I've seen it a ton of times because it's Lord of the Rings. I've been trying to like it and I try to seperate it from the books. But the cliches annoy me, Pippin and Merry grate on my nerves and Gandalf goes around as an old man that can barely find his way around. Not to mention that he is talked down to by Elrond. When Gandalf is talking to Saruman he looks like a whipped dog walking with his tail tucked between his legs. There is very little character development and most of the characters were either dumbed down (Pippin & Merry) or made weaker (Frodo, Aragorn and Gandalf). In place of dialog and character development - extended action scenes took their place. It's nonstop action. And the worst change to the movie - the Flight to the Ford. What Jackson did to that scene is unforgiveavle and was completely unnecessary. Fine give Arwen more screen time - but within one scene Jackson had weakened two characters (Aragorn and Frodo). Frodo being strong enough to stand up to the Black Riders at the Ford of Bruinen after being stabbed by a Morgul Blade is one of key points in the whole story. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-08-2002 at 03:00 AM.

02-08-2002, 05:41 AM	#11
Nazgûl Queen Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 400	I was irritated by some of the changes like Arwen and Tom Bombadil, but i recognised the neccessity. The changes in frodo's "brave" parts really got to me... But the movie still had all the heart and soul of the book. The characters weren't as developed as I'd like but they were still excellent, the scenery and acting and script and music were beautiful... and it just felt RIGHT! Thats why i have a desperate need to see it again, because it tells us the book in a way that really brings it to you and makes it seep into your heart even more... __________________ Morauko Umrien, Queen of the Nazgûl and Lady of Mordor Mistress of the Night The Nazgûl Queen she was, the Ringwraith, the enemy's most terrible servant; darkness went with her and she cried with the voices of death. Can be found loitering at Fantasy Essentials or her livejournal...

02-08-2002, 11:30 AM	#12
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	How many threads do we have going that focus on the whole arwen/ford/livtyler thingy? I loved the movie... warts and all. I actually had started a thread which was dedicated to discussing what people really enjoyed. Hmmm wait a sec.... yes it's here. It is fun to defend the short comings of the movie because on the whole it is well done. But it does become tiresome to read thread after thread that devolves into Arwen bashing. They start out good, but 15 posts later it's all "flight to the fords sucked". Maybe I should change my handle to Arwen Friend, or Tyler Liker. pulls out clumps of own hair __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

02-08-2002, 11:50 AM	#13
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Well when a thread is asking for critism of the movie - Flight to the Ford is the worst change that Jackson made. To be trying to reply to a thread that is asking "what's your beef? and not mention the Arwen changes is impossible. I have a lot of other problems with the movie too. It was an okay movie - but it wasn't great. Hopefully the other movies will be better - but Jackson aready completed them basically - so I doubt there will be much difference. I hope Gandalf is more commanding, I hope Aragorn is less of a whimp, I hope that Merry and Pippin are less annoying. I went in wanting to like it, but the moment that Pippin and Merry talked and Gandalf gave those weird facial expressions - it was downhill. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-08-2002 at 11:51 AM.

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