US History - Revolutionary War

[Valandil]

JD - I changed the name slightly so we can continue the thread if we like and branch off beyond the one event - the crossing of the Delaware and the ensuing battle of Trenton.

Anyway, this was triggered by my recent viewing of a docudrama about the latter called 'The Crossing'. I believe it was made in 2000. I didn't want to put it in 'Entertainment' forum though because I'm more interested in the historical facts.

Biggest question I have from it: At the end, Washington asked one of his generals about their losses... and he reported that there had been NO CASUALTIES!! Now, the victory seemed quite overwhelming, but it's hard for me to imagine that not even one Continental soldier was killed. Was that really true, historically?

The battle itself portrayed the American soldiers as slaying Hessian troops left and right (made me think of the battle before the gates of Moria in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, when Azog looks up from killing his foe (Nain?) to see the dwarves going 'this way and that, slaying as they would'). They didn't offer surrender, but on the other hand, their opponents made no attempts to surrender at first - even when caught unprepared. Washington watched impassively as his troops continued the slaughter - which only stopped when the remnants gathered at a meadow finally DID surrender. Now, I had missed the beginning, but soon after this, Washington made a comment about how these Hessian troops under this leader (who was now mortally wounded) had killed 500 Continental soldiers who HAD tried to surrender in a battle in Brooklyn(?). So I was also curious about that. Did that really happen?

From his ruthless behavior when he and another officer 'took out' a unit at a guard-house, it also seemed that young Alexander Hamilton had a 'score to settle' with the Hessians. Had he lost someone close to him at the previously mentioned battle?

They also claimed to have taken 900 prisoners (EDIT: from this 'battle'). Any reliable numbers on how many Hessians were killed and how many captured at Trenton? A note at the end said that there had been 16,000+ Hessian troops sent to America - and that 10,000+ had returned to Europe at war's end. It went on to say that of the rest, some had died in combat or of their wounds, but that most had actually stayed and become Americans. True? Any idea how many total British troops were deployed here at the time? How many Continental troops there were at any given time?

This was pretty early in the War for Independence. I think it was still 1776 (Christmas or the day after - right?). It was the first American victory - Washington didn't really have trained soldiers - and many of his volunteer 'soldier / farmers' felt a lot of pressure to return home at intervals to work their farms. At first, his only possible goal could just be to keep an army in the field - and out of harm's way. The British regulars would have made short work of them if they had allowed constant encounters on a traditional field of battle.

[Mercutio]

The Battle of Trenton took place during the American Revolutionary War on December 31, 1776. As the occupying Hessian forces celebrated New Years, Washington led the main Continental Army across the Delaware to surprise and virtually eliminate the Hessian garrison at Trenton, New Jersey. This overwhelming victory helped to preserve the Continental Army and set the stage for the Battle of Princeton the following week.

Trenton was garrisoned by three regiments of the Hessian mercenaries, commanded by Colonel Johann Rall for a total of about 1,200 men. Washington's force of about 2,400 attacked in two columns: Major General Nathanael Greene's division from the north, and Major General John Sullivan's division from the west. A third division never made it across the river due to the weather, but was supposed to attack from the South.

The troops left camp at 2:00 PM on Christmas Day. The river crossing was to be completed by midnight, but the storm which broke at 11:00 PM delayed this completion until 3:00 AM. The predawn attack was therefore delayed due to the waether and the fighting began around 8:00 AM. By 9:30 the Patriots had won.

The American forces had only a handful of wounded (although two men froze to death on the march), while the Hessians lost 106 dead and wounded with at least 600 captured. Colonel Rall was mortally wounded and died the same day. The Rall and Lossburg regiments were effectively removed from the British forces.Parts of the von Knyphausen regiment escaped to the south, but Sullivan did capture some men, along with the regiments cannons and supplies.

By noon, Washington's force had recrossed the Delaware back into Pennsylvania, taking their prisoners and captured supplies with them. This battle gave the Continental Congress a new confidence in that it proved American forces could defeat regulars. It also increased the reenlistments in the Continental Army forces.

An interesting note is that while only four Americans received light wounds, all of these came during the rush to capture the Hessian artillery park, preventing the guns from being used. Two of these were officers; William Washington (the General's cousin) and young Lietunant James Monroe, the future President of the United States.

Just moments before the battle served as the inspiration for a famous painting of "Washington crossing the Delaware River." The image in the painting, in which Washington stands majestic in his boat as it is crossing the river, is almost certainly fictional, as the waters of the river were icy and treacherous and the flag Washington holds was not created until six months after the battle. Washington, as with all of his troops, most likely stayed low in the boat to provide cover and protection. Nonetheless, the image has become an icon of American history.


Does that help? Another online source stated that primary documents differ about whether Washington's army sufferred casualties (but two most likely did die from freezing).

[Valandil]

Thanks Merc! I'll wait for JD to weigh in with his thoughts.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
Thanks Merc! I'll wait for JD to weigh in with his thoughts.

I know several historians and the person who works at and used to live at the Thomas Clarke House on Princeton Battlefield. I'm going to forward your PM and hopefully get all the information you want. There are a ton of really good books by the way. One was just out - and the author has given a talk at Washington's Crossing State Park. It's called Washington's Crossing - but it does cover quite a bit about Princeton and Trenton. Another good book I think is The Day is Ours. I'll ask which books the peope I know recommend - because I know there are many books that have incorrect information.

I live 10 minutes from Battle Of Princeton, half hour from Washington's Crossing, half hour from where the Battle of Trenton took place and the last remaining barracks from the French and Indian war still stands (this is where the Hessians were located) and a half hour from the Monmouth Battlefield.

I'm on the board of directors for the Princeton Battlefield Area Preservation Society

Here is my page on my website for Princeton Battlefield State Park

BVy the way - before the march to Trenton is where Thomas Paine wrote his famous "These are the Times that Try Men Souls". The revolutionary army was about to disolve. This is literally the turning point of the revolution. The revolutionary soldiers were chased all the way through New Jersey and across the Delaware - it was a do or die situation. If Washington did not have a victory - his soldiers were not going to reenlist at the end of the year. It was because of the Battle of Trenton that his army survived to fight on.

Oh another thing - the Battle fo Princeton was the first victory over British Regulars - it is also where the first US Marine died.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
...- before the march to Trenton is where Thomas Paine wrote his famous "These are the Times that Try Men Souls". The revolutionary army was about to disolve. This is literally the turning point of the revolution. The revolutionary soldiers were chased all the way through New Jersey and across the Delaware - it was a do or die situation. If Washington did not have a victory - his soldiers were not going to reenlist at the end of the year. It was because of the Battle of Trenton that his army survived to fight on.

Thanks JD... I had always associated THAT quote with Valley Forge.

From your comment in the other thread, I take it you saw that docudrama... what did you think of it?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
Thanks JD... I had always associated THAT quote with Valley Forge.

From your comment in the other thread, I take it you saw that docudrama... what did you think of it?

A lot erroneous things get associated with Valley Forge - like the harsh winter. That is a lie that Washington told, yes Washington lied, to get Congress to come up with supplies. He described the "terrible" conditions in order to get the Continental Congress to move on his supply requests.

The TRUE harsh winters both took place in Morristown the following years at his winter encampment. He stayed two years in Morristown. The mountains in the area gave him perfect look outs to observe the British troops in NY and northern NJ.

As for the movie - I saw it - but it was pretty fictionalized. Right after it came out - I was at Washington's Crossing State Park and I asked them about it - and they said that the movie really twisted some things. I don't remember much - so I can't really say anything conclusive about it. I'll have to see it again.

Oh - also as Mercutio posted - Washington standing up in the boat is complete fiction. I do have a short video that I was putting together - it basically just an experiement. You can check it out though. Let me look at it and I'll repost it in here.

Here is the video - I'm going to have to reproduce it for better quality sometime... Washington's Crossing Reenactment 2000. This is on the Pennyslvania side - they shoot the cannons over toward the Delaware River and New Jersey. I just park on the NJ side and then walk across the Bridge to the Pennsylvania side.

[Mercutio]

We always wanted to go see the reenactment--except Christmas Day (don't they do it then?) was kind of the wrong time!

Don't they do practice runs though? And you can watch those earlier in the year?

Or maybe I'm just really mixed up right now and none of this exists.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
We always wanted to go see the reenactment--except Christmas Day (don't they do it then?) was kind of the wrong time!

Don't they do practice runs though? And you can watch those earlier in the year?

Or maybe I'm just really mixed up right now and none of this exists.

They don't really do practice runs. It does occur on Christmas Day - because that is when it took place. You can always see Montmouth Battlefield Reenactment - which is actually much better. That one is a two day event the last weekend of June. It covers the first day of the battle and the second. They have the camps set up, "hospital", they do the reenactment - it's just really cool. They have a ton of events too - like camp tours and so forth. I go every year to that.

Here is a collage I put together for my website...


I also use my Monmouth Battlefield pictures of my online store. It's one of the designs on my t-shirts.

[jerseydevil]

BTW Val - you can talk about this on my New Jersey forum too

Maybe one day you'll decide to take a vacation out here.

BTW - here is the 255th Anniversary of the 10 Crucial Days website. This is what the time period between the Crossing of the Delaware and the Battle of Princeton is called.

It took two desperate journeys and three battles within ten days to break England's hold on a fledgling America. In that short span, George Washington turned the spirit of a nation from defeat to determination.

Annually, the Old Barracks Museum, Princeton Battlefield State Park, Washington Crossing Historic Park, PA, Washington Crossing State Park, NJ, and the Trenton Convention & Visitors Bureau, with the support of many, host reenactment and commemorative activities during the weekend between Christmas and New Year's.

Within this website you'll find images of past reenactments, details of the actual events that took place in 1776-1777, background information and more. The site will also serve to update the living historians (a.k.a. reenactors) as well as the public on details for this year's annual celebrations of Ten Crucial Days.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
They don't really do practice runs. It does occur on Christmas Day - because that is when it took place. You can always see Montmouth Battlefield Reenactment - which is actually much better. That one is a two day event the last weekend of June. It covers the first day of the battle and the second. They have the camps set up, "hospital", they do the reenactment - it's just really cool. They have a ton of events too - like camp tours and so forth. I go every year to that.

Sounds cool. I'll have to come sometime! hmm....last weekend in June.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Sounds cool. I'll have to come sometime! hmm....last weekend in June.

The 225th was the big one - people came from all over the world to participate in it. But even the previous ones were cool too. If New Jersey got off it's butt and advertised - people may actually know that these things take place here. Instead - not even New Jersey's know about them half the time.

This is my 7777 post Jonathan.

[Mercutio]

Maybe I'll come in 2026--that would be big!

Its a shame so many people don't know and appreciate their own history. The levels of intelligence seem to be drastically dropping....so sad.

And reenactments, old preserved buildings, etc. are really fun.

Ever heard of "Living History Farms" in Iowa? Or the Amana colonices? They are exciting. I love living history stuff. oooo and also Landis Valley Farm in Lancaster.

(random, yes)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Maybe I'll come in 2026--that would be big!

Its a shame so many people don't know and appreciate their own history. The levels of intelligence seem to be drastically dropping....so sad.

A lot of it is sad. This is a result of not many people knowing about it. it's in the newspapers - but there aren't even any signs on the highway saying anything. I know New Jersey has strict controls on billboards and banners - but a banner for a couple of weeks on RT 33 would do a lot ot bring more people.

And reenactments, old preserved buildings, etc. are really fun.

Ever heard of "Living History Farms" in Iowa? Or the Amana colonices? They are exciting. I love living history stuff. oooo and also Landis Valley Farm in Lancaster.

Yeah - I love Living History Museums. I hadn't heard of the ones in Iowa. But New Jersey has the New Sweden Farmstead/Museum This is recreation of one of the first settlements in NJ - and one of the very few that the Swedish ever took part in. We also have Alliare Village which was a bog iron town, and then there is Tuckerton Seaport which recreates life on the early Jersey Shore.

There are also many historic buildings here - such as Historic Rockingham where Washington wrote his farewell address to his troops after the war. Congress was meeting in Princeton because the Army was rebelling because of back pay. So Congress fled philadelphia to Princeton and met at Nassau Hall on Princeton Univerity then known as the College of New Jersey.

One of the reasons I love Nj is because of all this history. Rockingham is only 10 minutes away from me - I used to pass it every day going to work. I used to go to school across the street from Princeton University. I love the history and the old colonial towns - like Cranbury, which is the town next to me. The the west I border Princeton - to the east I border Cranbury.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Yeah - I love Living History Museums. I hadn't heard of the ones in Iowa. But New Jersey has the New Sweden Farmstead/Museum This is recreation of one of the first settlements in NJ - and one of the very few that the Swedish ever took part in. We also have Alliare Village which was a bog iron town, and then there is Tuckerton Seaport which recreates life on the early Jersey Shore.

There are also many historic buildings here - such as Historic Rockingham where Washington wrote his farewell address to his troops after the war. Congress was meeting in Princeton because the Army was rebelling because of back pay. So Congress fled philadelphia to Princeton and met at Nassau Hall on Princeton Univerity then known as the College of New Jersey.

One of the reasons I love Nj is because of all this history. Rockingham is only 10 minutes away from me - I used to pass it every day going to work. I used to go to school across the street from Princeton University. I love the history and the old colonial towns - like Cranbury, which is the town next to me. The the west I border Princeton - to the east I border Cranbury.

Neato. I've been to Philly a good bit--love all the history there. And Old New Castle in Delaware is lovely. Thats where the Swedes landed when they came over to settle. There is one of the oldest churches in America, Old Swedes Church, and a recreation of the boat they came over in, the Kalmar Nyckel that docks at the Christina riverfront--you can get tours of it, and they actually sailed across the ocean recreating the voyage! See this website on it. Also, we were in New York City...wait....Long Island at a huge "parade" of ships--I forget the real name (something ooo....Op Sail 2000) where they had hundreds of recreated 'old' ships going up the Atlantic coast for a bit, and then fireworks to top it off. That was really fun, and we saw the Kalmar Nyckel!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Neato. I've been to Philly a good bit--love all the history there. And Old New Castle in Delaware is lovely. Thats where the Swedes landed when they came over to settle. There is one of the oldest churches in America, Old Swedes Church, and a recreation of the boat they came over in, the Kalmar Nyckel that docks at the Christina riverfront--you can get tours of it, and they actually sailed across the ocean recreating the voyage! See this website on it.

That is cool. I was thinking about going to new Sweden Farmstead - I think they may have a ferry to get to Wilmington Delaware - maybe I can go see the ship and stuff too over there. I'll have to check that out.

Also, we were in New York City...wait....Long Island at a huge "parade" of ships--I forget the real name (something ooo....Op Sail 2000) where they had hundreds of recreated 'old' ships going up the Atlantic coast for a bit, and then fireworks to top it off. That was really fun, and we saw the Kalmar Nyckel!

I went to Op Sail 2000 in both Philadelphia and NY. I have pictures from NY on July 4th - from the top of the Twin Towers looking down at the ships. It was a MISERABLE day though. Opsail 2000 NYC I do have other pictures that are close up - but those are the only ones I have on a website.

I guess this thread is getting away from Revolutionary War stuff now.

[Mercutio]

Ahh---Revolutionary War.

At some point (this is all vague remebrance)...Washington and his troops did something on Manhattan Island and the fog came in and blocked the British allowing them (Washington's troops) to escape...or something. Can you help?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Ahh---Revolutionary War.

At some point (this is all vague remebrance)...Washington and his troops did something on Manhattan Island and the fog came in and blocked the British allowing them (Washington's troops) to escape...or something. Can you help?

I think that was Brooklyn. When the British first landed. I'd have to look up the circumstances of the escape from Brooklyn. Washington made his way across to Manhattan. Then the British chased Washington and his troops up through Manhattan and then across to Fort Lee - where the George Washington Bridge is now. It's odd to think that except for the very southern section of Manhattan - it was all woodland.

[Mercutio]

On August 22, 1776 the British landed on Long Island. British General William Howe defeated General Charles Lee at the Battle of Long Island. This took place at Jamaica Pass in Brooklyn. The British had has lost 63 killed and 337 wounded and missing while Washington had lost about 970 men killed, wounded or missing, and 1,079 taken captive. George Washington had lost almost a quarter of his entire command.

On August 26, General Charles Lee retreated to Brooklyn Heights. The British could have won an even greater victory if General William Howe had heeded the pleas of his officers to storm the American redoubts at Brooklyn Heights. General Howe wanted to avoid another Bunker (Breed's) Hill. He ordered his men to dig in and bring the guns into range.

When George Washington arrived on August 27, he wasted no time on blaming who lost the battle of Long Island. Remaining cool, calm, and confident, he oversaw the construction of new fortifications on Brooklyn Heights. A serendipitous downpour made further British attacks unlikely. American troops found it hard to cook their food or to keep their powder dry. On August 28, additional troops arrived to boost the number of men under his command to 9,000.

Washington realized that he had put himself in a trap. He had split his troops between Manhattan and Long Island, with the Hudson River, the East River, and Long Island Sound open to British warships and transport. Admiral Richard Howe, the brother of General Howe, could cut him off if moved the fleet from the New Jersey Shore to the East River to block movement from Long Island to Manhattan. Unfavorable winds and rains kept Admiral Howe from taking advantage of this opportunity to cut Washington off.

Rain continued to be intermittent the next day, August 29. Washington realized his position was untenable and it was time to withdraw. The seagoing soldiers of John Glover's Marblehead [Massachusetts] Regiment noiselessly ferried Washington's troops across the East River to Manhattan on the night of August 29. Darkness, fog, and bad weather immobilized Admiral Howe's fleet. Washington's cool and firm command exacted superb discipline from green troops. They remained quiet throughout the ordeal. He had kept the British high command in utter ignorance of the evacuation that he hastily ordered. When the British charged in the morning, they founded empty trenches. Washington's army lived to fight another day.

I think that is really cool. The fog came at the perfect time for them to escape--without it who knows where we'd be!

[mithrand1r]

Nice job JD,

I knew you would be quick to respond, but I did not realize how quick.

You posted plenty of good information.

Here is one website I found on the topic.

http://www.doublegv.com/ggv/battles/Trenton.html

The battles of TRENTON and PRINCETON are connected, and part of a campaign against the British forces in NJ, during the American Revolution during the 1776-1777 winter. Here is a general account of that campaign.

The third regiment of Hessians, on the south end of town, trying to get across the Creek to head towards Bordentown are delayed by trying to bring their cannon through a boggy area and suddenly find themselves surrounded and surrender as well. Many Hessians escape in small groups, but 868 are captured. 106 are killed or wounded. The American army lost perhaps 4 men wounded and 2 or 3 frozen to death, captured 1000 arms, several cannon and ammunition and stores.The fighting lasted only 90 minutes. About 600 Hessians, most of which had been stationed on the south side of the Creek, escaped.

[jerseydevil]

According to Washington's Crossing it was a nor'easter that came through and then a heavy fog followed.

After the Battle of Long Island, the Howe brothers were confident that they had trapped a large part of the American army, perhaps ten thousand men, on Brooklyn Heights, with the Royal Navy in their rear...

Some British officers wanted to storm the American lines, but William Howe refused to repeat the error of Bunker Hill. He was not about to risk his highly trained Regulars in a frontal assault on a fortified position...

While siege operations advanced,the Howes tried yet another peace initiative. They released General Sullivan from captivity, on condition that he carry a message to Congress calling for negotiations...Congress and army has none of it...The peace feelers were rejected out of hand, in part because of the bahavior of British and Hessian troops on Long Island...

On Brooklyn Heights, General Howe advanced his seige lines methodically toward the American lines. Admiral Howe prepared to send his warships in the East River. Washington's army would soon be surrounded, and its destruction appeared to be only a matter of time. Then something happened that seeemed of small importance to General Howe. There was a change in the American weather.

The first sign was a shift in the wind. The prevailing westerlies below New York backed around to the northest, and the wind began to rise. Then came dark clouds, and a cold rain began to fall on August 28th. On both sides it made life a muddy misery for private soldiers in sodden coats and flooded trenches. The next day was worse. The rain grew into a great storm, a classic American nor'easter with "such heavy rainfall as can hardly be remembered." That morning Washington rose to the forward positiions on Brooklyn Heights. He studied the British entrenchments through the driving rain, and the soldiers hard at work as the storm beat down on them. The seige lines advanced inexorably, protected by folds in the ground that the Americans had not been able to cover.

In the morning of August 29, Washington called a council of war at the Philip Livingston house...Washington posed a question: Should the army evacuate Long Island?...

The council raised doubts and questions. Some argued it could not be done. One officer observed that it was a desperate venture. The crossing was "a full mile wide," the current was strong and swift, boats were in short supply, the British army could attack at any moment, and the Royal navy could catch the army on the water...Then Washington weighed in. He had already begun to collect the boats, and the decision was made. Washington ordered that an evacuation was to begin immediately, in strictest secrecy. Nobody was to be told. His own men were kept deliberately in the dark. The army was told to pack up and prepare to change positions along the line. At ten o'clock that night in heavy rains the American units began to withdraw from their lines to the water's edge....

...The American position was a sea of mud, and the guns sank to their hubs. Small cannon were dragged away by great effort. The larger ones were left behind...

The nor'easter masked Washington's movements and kept the British ships out of the East River but also delayed the American crossing. At first light many of the best American troops were still holding their positions as a rear guard...They knew that when British patrols discovered what had happened they were doomed to captivity or death or both, given the barbaric treatment of prisoners.

Then incredibly, there was another change in the weather. Tallmadge remembered that "a very dense fog bagan to rise, and it seemed to settle in a peculiar manner over both encampments." it was so thick that Tallmadge could "scarcely discern a man at six yards' distance." New Englanders recieved this event as a "provdential occurence." Virginians regarded it as a stroke of fortune.

The sun rose but the fog persisted, and in a strange yellow light the American army made its escape.