Drugs tests for kids!!!

[Janny]

The UK is now considering random drug tests for schoolchildren. Woo! Waste of resourses, more bureaucrasy for over-worked teachers, infringement on civil liberties or a way of catching kids before addiction sets in?

[Nerdanel]

Oh, we've had argues about that here. They arranged drugtests in our school, 'cause they had heard some rumours that a lot of young people use drugs. But people over 18 could choose not to make the test, or you could do it anonymously. For those aged under 18, the parents decided. I didn't do it and I have absolutely never used any kind of drugs. I just decided not to do it when I heard of it, and I'm very stubborn..

The main issue here, was that people had to pee in front of a nurse. But I don't know what I think actually; they didn't catch anyone in our school, and no one knows if these kinds of actions prevent anything. But something has to be done, IMO. But what? That's a harder question.

[gimli7410]

we have talks about that too but that idea is stupid. it will cost money, its infringing on privacy, all they will find out is that the kids they though do drugs do it. i mean every knows that a kid do will encounter drugs. send me to any school and i can point out people who are serious pot smokers. im also against it because i would just get caught again

[Nurvingiel]

As a fellow Vancouverite (general area) I'm surprised they're thinking of that here. I am a bit out of touch with the school system now that I've graduated though.

I don't think it's a good idea. The solution to drug problems is complex, and involves not only teachers but parents as well. I don't know how it would work, but I do know that it's not simple, and that our society is ill-equipped to take on such a challenge in a proactive way.

[jerseydevil]

Completely against it. I think there should be a reasonable suspicion before testing.

[brownjenkins]

honest education... and by that i mean not the scare-tactic stuff you see these days in the us... is the best answer

tests of this sort just incite rebellion and feed mistrust

[sun-star]

I'm against it. It's impractical to sort out issues of consent and it's not going to tackle the root of the problem. The most common drug illegally used by schoolchildren is alcohol anyway, and they're not testing for that.

[The Gaffer]

Testing is a massive assault on civil liberties and must be resisted at all times.

Blair is a fascist lunatic and must be removed from office.

[Janny]

Testing is a massive assault on civil liberties and must be resisted at all times. Blair is a fascist lunatic and must be removed from office.

That's what 'a little left' means then...
How can it be a massive assault on civil liberties to catch the people who are breaking law? It is similar to breathalisers, I know no-one will endanger lives at school by using drugs, but the principle of maintaining law, and preventing kids ruining their lives and wasting their money remains.

[Radagast]

Originally posted by The Gaffer

Blair is a fascist lunatic and must be removed from office.

Quite so, down with Blair!

[Janny]

Radagast!!!
And I was just friendly to you on the Suffragettes are evil thread!!!
Hmm.. at least you're agreeing with well articulated viewpoints.
I know I started tis whole thread n all, but does anyone know whose idea this testing thing was? I don't think was actually the

fascist lunatic

although he did endorse it.

[The Gaffer]

Yeah but Bliar is just jumping on the bandwagon.

To me, other people have made the good arguments against drug testing. There's also the over-arching principle that it's up to YOU to justify why MY (or my children's) privacy should be invaded, not the other way round.

Don't you agree?

[Lizra]

Personnally, I wouldn't mind if schools wanted to drug test my kids. If they had done that when I was in school, maybe I wouldn't have wasted so much time and money being stoned!
If my son started using drugs, I'd be more than grateful to find out. I dunno....drugs suck. It would be easier to say "no" if you had a reason. (fear you might get tested) Many kids agree to smoke that first joint because of stupid peer pressure. A "real" reason to "just say no" would make life simpler for many youngsters. I think the world is too full of complicated choices for adolescents as it is. I wouldn't mind helping them out with a tool (drug testing) to make the right choice. Isn't that my job as a parent?
Frankly....telling your kids how terrible pot is doesn't ring too true when they smoke it and nothing horrible happens. They might (probably will ) even enjoy it. Then we (parents) look like big liars. But it is a very bad idea...I know that from experience. But this type of logic ( the why pot is bad in the long run story) doesn't have much impact one a 13 year old looking for fun.
I have no problem with using fear of punishment as a crutch to keep kids drug free till they are older. (and then hopefully wiser) Fair or not...it's just common sense to me, at this point in time.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
Personnally, I wouldn't mind if schools wanted to drug test my kids. If they had done that when I was in school, maybe I wouldn't have wasted so much time and money being stoned!

No - you would have just have spent more time thinking and trying to figure out how to get around the testing and not getting caught. Those who do drugs - are going to do them. What are the consequences?

If it's not affecting them in school - why have it? It should only be if there is REASONABLE cause. People are too willing today to just give up their freedoms. It's not the governments position to protect you from yourself. You should be responsible for YOUR own children. You can do drug testing on your kids - let the people who don't approve of the government control handle it in their own way.

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
No - you would have just have spent more time thinking and trying to figure out how to get around the testing and not getting caught. Those who do drugs - are going to do them. What are the consequences?

If it's not affecting them in school - why have it? It should only be if there is REASONABLE cause. People are too willing today to just give up their freedoms. It's not the governments position to protect you from yourself. You should be responsible for YOUR own children. You can do drug testing on your kids - let the people who don't approve of the government control handle it in their own way.

Those who give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither liberty nor security. -- Ben Franklin

The quote applies today as it did during the colonial times.

I am against mandatory testing with no probable cause.

Education and marginalizing drug use are probably to best tactic to prevent drug use. By marginalizing I mean make drug use un-cool. If it is not seen as cool then kids would be less inclined to try drugs in the first place.

I agree with brownjenkins that honest education about drugs should be used.

Lizra,

Hopefully you have an open enough relationship with your kids that you would be aware of any drug use by your kids. If not, you still can find out via a drug test. You may need to pay out of pocket, but at least you will know for sure. I do not wish to imply that this will be easy. If finding out about your kids "hypothetical" (I do not wish to imply that your kids are taking drugs ) drug use is important to you, then it should be worth the effort to find out the truth.

[Coney II]

Originally posted by The Gaffer

Blair is a fascist lunatic and must be removed from office.

Yup. The next thing we'll be having surveilence by the authorities and then the police will be able to imprison us, take our posessions and hold us without due cause or any trial or explanation they may even pass a law that prevents a person talking about it if they are released. And then where would we be? It would make the former communist block look like a hippy commune.

Still......if they have decided to implement drug testing I say they should start with the teachers.....even student teachers (hah! students who don't smoke dope? that'll be the day ) Lets have teachers who actually practice what they preach

[Lizra]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jerseydevil
No - you would have just have spent more time thinking and trying to figure out how to get around the testing and not getting caught. Those who do drugs - are going to do them. What are the consequences?

LIZRA replies......That's not true JD. I'm sorry, but you can't make that blanket statement about ME! It would have been too much hassle for this lazy gal, smoking pot was something I just did cause someone offered it and it was there. I never once spent time thinking..."I want to smoke pot, must do drugs..." Fear of getting in trouble stops kids from doing lots of goofy stuff. No...I wasn't that desperate to get stoned...till I tried it.

If it's not affecting them in school - why have it? It should only be if there is REASONABLE cause. People are too willing today to just give up their freedoms. It's not the governments position to protect you from yourself. You should be responsible for YOUR own children. You can do drug testing on your kids - let the people who don't approve of the government control handle it in their own way.

Of course, reasonable cause.
If my school system wants to mandate drug testing....I'm for it. I pay taxes, and I say yea. I would welcome it. That's how I feel.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by mithrand1r
Those who give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither liberty nor security. -- Ben Franklin

I used to have that quote in my sig, along with a bunch from Roosevelt.

I'll try to reply to the rest later.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
Of course, reasonable cause.
If my school system wants to mandate drug testing....I'm for it. I pay taxes, and I say yea. I would welcome it. That's how I feel.

They're not talking about reasonal cause though - they're talking about ALL students being drug tested.

Do you have your chidren drug tested? They have home kits - why wait until the schools do it if you support it?

[Hemel]

My view? Total disgrace and imposition. Absolutely against. I agree with The Gaffer's mild and considered sentiments


I note, btw, that Tony Blair now, because of heckling over the Hutton report, is going to have fewer members of the public admitted to the public gallery in the house of commons. He is also going to erect a glass screen ... against bullets, he says ...