Tom Bombadil

[Panther2112]

I know this subject has been discussed quite a bit but I have been trying to convince a friend of mine who is new to the books that nobody really knows who Tom is and that question will never been answered. Everyone has a theory, heck I have one. Just wanted some feedback on the following (men of the west are in my opinion the rangers such as Strider):

just finished 'Fog on the Barrow-Downs' and I have a new theory on Tom Bombadil. I think he was once one of the Men of Westernesse that somehow became immortal. (Like in Highlander before they ruined it with that space alien crap in Highlander 2) On page 142, Tom says that the Men of Westernesse were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil king of Carn Dum in the Land of Angmar. He goes on to say: "Few now remember them yet some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless." (as Tom does for the Hobbits when he rescues them from the Wight). Also, prior to that passage on the same page Tom picks up the brooch from the Wight's treasure and "looked long at it, as if stirred by some memory, shaking his head...". On page 143, they pass the "boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He (Tom) seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." On page 144, Tom says that "out east my knowledge fails. Tom is not master of Riders from the Black Land far beyond his country". Of course, as I read further may theory may be completely blown (or maybe not since you said he is not really a part of the story from here on out). I guess I'll have to try and read 'The Silmarillion'.

[Thorin II]

I don't think Tom could be a Man of any kind. The Elves call him Eldest. I don't have the text in front of me, but it seems to me there's something about Tom being in Middle-Earth before the Elves arrived.

[Falagar]

He is "father-less" according to the Elves and according to himself he saw the first drops of rain, which would rule out the possibility of him being a man...

[Twista]

ask the Mewlips lol

[Elvengirl]

I read a thory about him somewhere, I think it was in another thread on Tom and I personally think it makes the most sense.
It basically explains Tom to be the spirit of the Earth.
Maybe I'll dig it up......nope can't find it. But many people have thier own thories about Tom. Tolkien obviously didn't explain him for his own reasons. As much as you try to figure him out, there is no absolute answer to the mystery behind Tom Bombadill.

[Twista]

i always thought he was kinda like Treebeard, ancient, pratically ever lasting and his wearabouts from the begining not really known. It is said the Ents and Dwarves awakened at about the same time, just after the Elves awakened at the begining of the Ages of Stars. Although, the Ents were conceived much earlier, in the Age of Trees (Era One), and the Dwarves at the end of the Age of Darkness. I am assuming he was not made before the Eagles of Manwe, as he wasnt a servant of the Valar was he? Or maybe he was? SO that means he had to be created after that ( Middle of the Age of Trees (Era One) ).

So.... there is a time gap in which i will assume he came about to be, between the beginning of the Age of Trees (Era Two), and just before Orome discovered the Elves, in the Middle of the First Age of Trees (Era Two).

Now if you understood that lol, it would fit into the fact, that he is one of eldest (bar the Valar and Eagles), and was around before the Elves.

As for who Tom is, i dont know, maybe he is the kind of 'Valar Archivist' - keeping mental records through time, acually being part of the world. Something along the lines of that i think...

I dont know if anyone agrees with this, but its an idea! - lol ( had to add it in at the end lol )

[durin's bane]

Well, it's pretty much impossible for Tom to be a Numenor. After all, he's been on Middle-earth for even longer than the Elves. I've always thought him to be a second-hand Maiar, sent down by Iluvatar to guard Middle-earth from evil-doings. But he quickly took a liking to the Old Forest, and spent all his time in it. Iluvatar became angry and forbid Tom to see beyond the West, but allowed him to become the "Master". Just my thought.

[Wayfarer]

I am Tom Bombadil!

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by durin's bane
Well, it's pretty much impossible for Tom to be a Numenor. After all, he's been on Middle-earth for even longer than the Elves. I've always thought him to be a second-hand Maiar, sent down by Iluvatar to guard Middle-earth from evil-doings. But he quickly took a liking to the Old Forest, and spent all his time in it. Iluvatar became angry and forbid Tom to see beyond the West, but allowed him to become the "Master". Just my thought.

Uhhh, there was no Numenor until the beginning of the Second Age...So how would it be possible for Tom to be from Numenor then? He is "fatherless" and was there before the Elves. The Elves were awake before the First Age even began. Men didn't show up until after the Elves, Men awoke in the 1st year of the First Age. That alone disproves Tom is a "Man"...

[brownjenkins]

i recently reread lost tales... towards the beginning there is mention of spirits, other than the ainur, who came from the outside when the world was created... i can't remember the names tolkien used, but maybe this idea stuck with him, yet he decided not to spell it out so much to add to the mystery

[Ulmo]

Straight from Tolkien -

I don't think Tom needs philosophizing about, and is not improved by it.

[brownjenkins]

good point ulmo... CT also mentions in lost tales that his father had reservations about publishing the silmarillion at all, since it might take away from some of the mystery behind LoTR

i also wonder how happy he would be about his son basically publishing every word he ever put to paper... my guess is he might be a bit unhappy

that said, though i appreciate jrrt's sentiments... like many authors, i think he was a bit too touchy on the subject of interpretations and such... i think author's should appreciate the attention, whether or not the conclusions are the ones they were hoping to transmit

[Ulmo]

True. I'm sure he did, and that he made the statement after being frustrated, but I can't help but sympathsize with him because of all of these odd twistings of logic/facts into "theories" on who Tom really is, especially after he has explained it so many times, and understand this in light of Tom's real purpose in the story - in that letter, Tolkien was speaking of people trying to figure out who Tom is as opposed to what Tom is - his literary purpose, which Tolkien explained often (and best in the letter I've quoted already):

But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out. I do not mean him to be an allegory - or I should not have given him so particular, individual, and ridiculous a name - but 'allegory' is the only mode of exhibiting certain functions: he is then an 'allegory', or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture . Even the Elves hardly show this : they are primarily artists. Also T.B. exhibits another point in his attitude to the Ring, and its failure to affect him. You must concentrate on some pan, probably relatively small, of the World (Universe), whether to tell a tale, however long, or to learn anything however fundamental - and therefore much will from that 'point of view' be left out, distorted on the circumference, or seem a discordant oddity. The power of the Ring over all concerned, even the Wizards or Emissaries, is not a delusion - but it is not the whole picture, even of the then state and content of that pan of the Universe.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I am Tom Bombadil!

Sure you are.

Originally posted by Twista
i always thought he was kinda like Treebeard, ancient, pratically ever lasting and his wearabouts from the begining not really known. It is said the Ents and Dwarves awakened at about the same time, just after the Elves awakened at the begining of the Ages of Stars. Although, the Ents were conceived much earlier, in the Age of Trees (Era One), and the Dwarves at the end of the Age of Darkness. I am assuming he was not made before the Eagles of Manwe, as he wasnt a servant of the Valar was he? Or maybe he was? SO that means he had to be created after that ( Middle of the Age of Trees (Era One) ).

So.... there is a time gap in which i will assume he came about to be, between the beginning of the Age of Trees (Era Two), and just before Orome discovered the Elves, in the Middle of the First Age of Trees (Era Two).

Now if you understood that lol, it would fit into the fact, that he is one of eldest (bar the Valar and Eagles), and was around before the Elves.

As for who Tom is, i dont know, maybe he is the kind of 'Valar Archivist' - keeping mental records through time, acually being part of the world. Something along the lines of that i think...

I dont know if anyone agrees with this, but its an idea! - lol ( had to add it in at the end lol )

I don't have the books on me now, but wasn't he there before the trees and first rain? If so he would have been there before the Two Trees.

[Bombadillo]

Yeah, most theories are almost accurate, save one or two discrepencies. I have multiple theories that would cover this too, but I think he's a tall tale to some extent. He was in ME a long time, that's for sure, even if not from the beginning. But over that time it seems likely that some facts about him were twisted a bit by word of mouth. Which means that his whole story is lost, so in any case, we never will know what he is.

Tom's the bomb.

[Aragorn, King of Gondor]

Dude, when it comes down to the bottom line, Tom is the Bomb lol

[Thorin II]

I've never heard an argument that really works, so I've always thought of Tom as something outside Tolkien's definitions. I think he was intended to be mysterious and I think JRRT was happy to leave it at that.

[Beren3000]

I know this is an age old question, but I can't seem to find a thread relating to it. (If there was an old thread can somebody please refer me to it?)

Anyway, I think he's either a Maia or a sort of Elf-Hobbit hybrid.
My reasons:
He uses singing to do "magic". Sauron, a Maia, did this; and so did Luthien and Fingolfin. Also Gandalf talks about him as an equal (he says something like "he [Bombadil] is a moss-gatherer while I'm a stone doomed to roll"), as if they were both of the same race.

So he's either a Maia undercover or a descendant from a Moriquendi-hobbit or Moriquendi-human marriage (hence the beard and the belly )

Any ideas?

[Radagast The Brown]

I found a few threads about Tom Bombadil:

http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10004

http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2909

http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5974

By the way, when did Fingolfin use singing as magic? You mean Finrod?

[The Gaffer]

A mystery wrapped in an enigma, wearing a silly hat.