Ian McKellen

[bropous]

Well, I for one thought Sir Ian was pretty great in "X-Men". And in seeing some interviews with him, he is a well-mannered, genteel gentleman with humor and wisdom. I cannot think of another actor who would have put in the performance Sir Ian put in as Gandalf. I cannot wait to see him in Two Towers and Return of the King! [Okay, I can't wait to see EVERYTHING about Two Towers and Return of the King]

And he was very good in Gods and Monsters [first Oscar nom?]

EDIT NOTE 01/14/07: This quote "And he was very good in Gods and Monsters [first Oscar nom?]" is a total LIE. I NEVER, and I mean NEVER, said Ian McKellan was good in Gods and Monsters. This is something added at a later date by some jackass with admin/mod privileges to make my postion seem to be what it was not. I have never SEEN "Gods and Monsters", and from what I have heard, it is some movie about homosexuality, a film which I would have walked out on the moment the slant was apparent. Some politically correct pro-homosexual edited my comments to hijack my own credibility to make their own pro-homosexual point.

I am decidedly anti-homosexual [and if it gets you off to call me "homophobic", go right ahead], and this re-editing is an attempt to impose politically correct speech upon one of the most un-politically incorrect posters to have ever posted on Entmoot.

Ian McKellen is a wonderful actor, but someone using MY posts to promote a homosexual film to an audience with a lot of children in it is just sickening. If you wanted to praise this film, and Sir Ian's performance in it, why in the living hades didn't you have the guts to post your OWN opinion, in your OWN post, under your OWN moniker, and not hijack mine?

Ladies and gentlemen, please check your own posts as well: If they felt comfortable in distorting my opinions, then yours are not sacrosanct, and it may have happened to you as well...

[crickhollow]

I liked XMen in general, and Sir Ian in particular! He played the bad-guy that you could sympathize with when appropriate (conversations about losing all hope), and truly hate when also appropriate

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Okay, I really should just forget about this and go on with a nice, well-mannered discussion about Ian McKellan's acting, but I just spent 45 minutes trying to reply to your posts, bropous, and it just disappeared, because my computer failed on me. So, I am going to try again, and do forgive me for going off topic, but I feel I must say this, and my blood is boiling. I will not address everything I would like to address here, just what I think has top priority on my agenda, in the interest of saving time and space, and because I know someone is going to get really mad at me for trying to continue this. But you had your turn, now it's mine.

Thank you for your lesson on the political spectrum, bropous, but it really was not necessary, as I've already had it, and you were wrong on a few points. I know very well that Nazi stand for approximately "National Socialist German Worker's" party, but that was simply a cover so they could get more votes. They were fascists, and fascism is an example of the extreme right. It is (and I am looking at my notes from humanities from last year) a political philosophy in which a nation or a race is held above the individual, and ruled by one dictatorial leader, who controls everything withing that nation. The purpose of the individual is to serve the state, which is the inverse of democracy, in which the state serves the individual. I never said I though socialism is a fairy tale. "National Socialist German Worker's Party" certainly sounds nice, but it is even more of a fairy tale than real socialism is, because it is NOT socialism. It is fascism, which is extreme right wing. Not leftist, or liberal at all. Enough said there.

Nibs and bropous: You say the fight for human rights for black people and women is different than gay rights, because they are born that way. Well, nobody chooses to be gay. Homosexuality is NOT a choice, and it cannot be changed. Nobody chooses to make their life more difficult and complicated than it needs to be. Nobody is gay because they want to be gay. People are gay because that is the way they are born. The only difference between that and being black or being a woman is that being gay is much, much easier to hide. Also, during the women's and black rights movements, the gay rights movement sometimes joined with them to fight for civil rights together. Sometimes. But the point is, it is far from being a choice, that is the truth, and it is important for people to understand this.

Finally, since this thread is about Ian McKellan, I must say that I admire him greatly not only as an amazing actor (and I thought he was great in X-men), but because he fights bigotry (and no, I am NOT calling anyone here a bigot) and stands up for what he believes in, which I find to be highly admirable. Now that I have said my piece, I think I can go back to talking about Ian McKellan's acting. Thank you.

[maelyn]

bropous: by telling me i should have spoken in the third person you assume i should be ashamed -- and I'm not, which is precisely why i spoke in the first person.
Eruviel is exactly right, Nazis were facists and ANY historian could tell you that. And you ought to rethink your comparison between progressivism with Nazism--that is so wholly backwards.
Eruviel was also right on in saying gay people have no choice in the matter...why on earth would one choose to live a life that is seen as so shameful in the eyes of most people?

And on that note, I also thought Ian McKellan was great in xmen.

[bropous]

[Retroactively self-edited in the interests of comity.]

maelyn, I do not agree.
Eruviel, I do not agree.

[maelyn]

Wow...I've never encountered someone as angry as you about gay people, bropous. I think it is so amusing that you say it's okay with you--it is so clearly not! In fact, it seems to me that it outrages you more than anyone I've ever met! Don't worry, I'm not asking you to do anything to support my human rights--I don't need people like you supporting me. But you totally represent what I'm fighting against: people who believe that gays deserve fewer human rights than straights, therefore are less human than straights. I can't believe your "special rights" campaign! I guess to people like you, having equal protection from hate crimes and discrimination as black people and other marginalized groups means "special" (read: you don't deserve to be protected). I haven't heard that in a while! So i don't deserve to see my "buddy" if she's dying? You clearly know nothing about the law, because just last fall that power of attorney document failed in a hospital in Washington DC. I'm sure that pleases you, but i think it is really sad that a man died alone in a hospital, while his parter of 25 years waited in the lobby, unable to convince anyone that he was "family."

Oh and by the way, I don't know if you heard, but the National Pediatric Foundation just came out with a decade-long research report saying just the exact opposite of what you said about gay parenting. Children of gay parents are equally well adjusted and happy as children of straight parents. I think I'll trust a board of thousands of physicians, psychologists, and researchs over you, bropous.

And as your your marraige as a sacred union only to be shared between a man and a woman--there's not much I can say to that. I know, the Bible does say that is true, but it also says a lot of other things: like slavery being a-ok and shellfish eating an abomniation. I guess I think some things just change with time.

[bropous]

Non-sequitur post removed.

[bropous]

[Unnecessary comments redacted.]

[maelyn]

Well this argument is getting ridiculous. Bropous, there is NO NEED for you to put words into my mouth-I never said I hated Christianity or straight people. And I didn't assume you were a "Bible-thumper"--I did assume you were refering to it; fine if you weren't. My argument still holds legally. Please don't get underhanded with your arguments just because you are angry with me.
The American Academy of Pediatrics came out with that study. Sorry for the mis-reference.
It was wonderful to hear your story about the man with AIDS--actually, my job is working with people with AIDS too. And my dad is a nurse. (And I wasn't impressed with Moulin Rouge either--I read your earlier post).
Seems we have some things in common!

Anyway, getting back to the original thread...I can't wait for the next two movies...I think his acting will hold through all three.

[bropous]

[throwing bucket of ice water on smouldering coals]

Enough. maelyn, I'll let you have the last word, so this issue can rest. This ain't the place to discuss this stuff. It's a Tolkien discussion group, not really for political diatribes nor for social engineering propaganda. Apologies to all for veering far, far from the path. Back to the Moot.

[Pailan]

Interesting, passionate debate if somewhat off topic.

Now then did anyone catch the 60 minutes piece? I am curious if they focused on his acting or sexuality? Maybe they actually dicussed LotR.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Look, bropous, I would gladly go back to nice, civilized discussion about more calm topics, but I cannot just leave what you said without responding to it. I cannot believe you had the audacity to give me your little "lesson" about polotics and fascism when you obviously are twisting the truth to fit your ideas. Look, fascsism, and especially the nazis, hated communism and other left-wing philosophies. It is a right wing philosophy. The place where one might get confused is that it is totatlitarianism, which eventually becomes essentially the same thing, whether it is of the left or the right. But it starts out as a right wing philosophy but it eventually goes so far that it is just the same as communism in that it is a totalitarian structure. But it is still different.

And as for choice, how can you, a straight man, go on about how homosexuality is not a choice when you don't even know what someone goes through, how difficult it can be, if one is gay. I know many people who are gay themselves, and none of them would say they chose to be that way. And the church has NOT been succesful in changing people. THAT is horse hockey. It doesn't truly work. Nobody can be changed--you can't make a straight person gay, just as you can't make a gay person straight. It does not work that way. Now, I can't explain why people are gay, but I know that it is not a choice. It's not a genentic trait that can be passed on, but it is not a choice that someone makes. And as for raising children, it is ridiculous to assume that a child's sexual orientation will be determined by what their parents are like.

Your story about the man with AIDS was touching. And there are some things I happen to agree with you about, such as the Oscars. But I guess we do not agree on the certain subjects, so back to the original discussion, and my apologies for keeping this discussion going longer than it should have. I can't wait for the next two movies either.

[bropous]

[Off-subject remarks self-obliterated.]

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Okay, I thought I said we ought to drop the argument. But you keep persisting. I'm sorry, I know I have been a little rude, but I have not been this angry at someone in a long time. Although I like to question what is said to me in school, especially in history, I do believe my teachers, who are highly intelligent people and well versed in history and polotics, when they tell me basic facts about history. I am tempted to go and find them right now and ask them about it! The way I learned it, the Nazis, and fascism, is a right wing philosophy. I wish I had been able to find my notes from the lecture on the political spectrum. The Nazis destroyed the communist party in their own country-it was their first target of parties to get rid of. That was long before 1941. I do not remember much of that history from last year, but I am sure that fascism was of the right. I cannot beleive you call my school a propagandized system. Admittedly, we have a reputation for being a bit liberal, but the humanities department would never twist the truth to fit their own agenda. They try to present the information in a nuetrual way, and there is only one teacher who openly presents his own political views. I believe what I have been taught, and I will no longer try to argue this point with you, as it is a hopeless indeavor, but I cannot help but to think about how you were educated and think that perhaps the way you learned it was twisted to fit someone else's agenda. Also, I am very interested in political science, and hope to study it in collge. Please refrain from calling me confused on the subject. I haven't studied in a while, so I am probably not as good at backing up my side, but you do not have to act so condescending. Enough said. Back to the original topic now, PLEASE! Oh, and for your opening statement, yes I was aware of that fact, and I would never confuse the two sects. They are quite different to my mind.

[Pailan]

At the risk of being de'mooted I would like to suggest this: That politics like sexuality is a circular spectrum. By that I mean, one could be so "far right" as to look "far left". It often makes me laugh to see democrats and libertines agree on a point.

I think that both of you make valid points. We all craft our responses to the world through life's lessons. So agree to disagree and let us move on to the matters at hand.

"I know what's bothering me. I haven't had a smoke since before we started 'mooting"

Bad paraphrase.

[Nibs]

Anyway, back to Ian. I saw him recently in the TV version of the Scarlet Pimpernel. He makes quite the evil guy, also in X-men. I prefer him as Gandalf.

Weird... I hadn't even known that Ian was gay before reading this thread. Call me vacuous.

[Ñólendil]

I really wished I visited this forum more often, I could have done something about this "debate" (flame war) sooner. There will no more flames here, there will be no more discussion of gay rights. This is a thread about Ian McKellen in the Lord of the Rings Movies forum. Keep it that way. Any more off-topic or offensive posts and this topic will be closed. Any more flaming may result in a ban. I'm sick and tired of people insulting people.

[Comic Book Guy]

Ian Mc Kellan is also the lead in a film about Movie Director James Whale. Titled "Gods and Monsters", he earned an Oscar Nomination for his perfomance.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0120684

[bropous]

Yup, Sir Ian gave a compelling performance in Gods and Monsters, Comic Book Guy. Really sad film, but a very good performance.

From the short clip I saw of his Sat Nite Live gig, apparently he has been doing a lot of stage acting. I'm sure he's great in Shakespearean roles.

[Ñólendil]

Never saw Gods and Monsters. I've only seen him in X-Men and Fellowship of the Ring, sadly. Though, those two movies are pretty awesome.