Homeschooling is banned in California

[brownjenkins]

It was a nice win!

I decided to take a break from the 'moot theocracy.

[BeardofPants]

God knows, I'm not a homeschool fan as all the homeschoolers I've known have tended to fit the stereotype, but I too can't see how homeschooling is deleterious to society. We get 'em back after all when they join the workforce.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

God knows, I'm not a homeschool fan as all the homeschoolers I've known have tended to fit the stereotype, but I too can't see how homeschooling is deleterious to society. We get 'em back after all when they join the workforce.

You see, the way I look at it, there are two types; there are the homeschooled, and the homeschoolers. Not a fan of the latter. Oh, and also homeschool distortions. I'm sort of a mix between the first and the third.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Hey, thought I'd put this here.

Subway sandwich shops are having an essay contest from which homeschoolers are specifially excluded. Big controversy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2020985/posts

I thought the comments were pretty funny, too.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Hey, thought I'd put this here.

Subway sandwich shops are having an essay contest from which homeschoolers are specifially excluded. Big controversy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2020985/posts

I thought the comments were pretty funny, too.

Yuk, they should be thankful.

Subway are the McDonald's of sandwichery. Manky.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Yuk, they should be thankful.

Subway are the McDonald's of sandwichery. Manky.

Essay writing doesn't require purchase.

Do you find it odd that they'd go to the trouble of annoying a sizable potential market?

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Hey, thought I'd put this here.

Subway sandwich shops are having an essay contest from which homeschoolers are specifially excluded. Big controversy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2020985/posts

I thought the comments were pretty funny, too.

Umm, the prize was a $5,000 donation of equipment to the kid's school.

For some strange reason, Subway didn't think that giving one kid five grand's worth of stuff for his/her exclusive use was within the spirit of the competition.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Umm, the prize was a $5,000 donation of equipment to the kid's school.

For some strange reason, Subway didn't think that giving one kid five grand's worth of stuff for his/her exclusive use was within the spirit of the competition.

Since the average school size in the US is about 500, maybe they could have offered ten bucks to a home-schooler if they won?

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

God knows, I'm not a homeschool fan as all the homeschoolers I've known have tended to fit the stereotype, but I too can't see how homeschooling is deleterious to society. We get 'em back after all when they join the workforce.

What's your definition of the homeschool stereotype? Just curious.

[Freeflying]

Perhaps its for the childrens own sake - i think human contact is probably the most valuable lesson - cant help thinking that if you are homeschooled - society seems like a daunting experience. . .

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Good morning, Freeflying, and welcome.

But very few homeschoolers are without "human contact." On the contrary, they tend to be very active in their communities and are often involved in homeschool co-ops and the like that meet regularly, but don't have a dedicated "brick and mortar" component.

Actually, some people are officially 'homeschooling" because the cost of having buildings code certified for education is so high that fundraising for a new school can prevent their actually getting educated. If the people who used to start schools want to do that, these days, they're more likely to become "homeschools" where having a building that's ADA safe, has ceiling beams that conform to new codes, etc. isn't required.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Freeflying

Perhaps its for the childrens own sake - i think human contact is probably the most valuable lesson - cant help thinking that if you are homeschooled - society seems like a daunting experience. . .

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Good morning, Freeflying, and welcome.

But very few homeschoolers are without "human contact." On the contrary, they tend to be very active in their communities and are often involved in homeschool co-ops and the like that meet regularly, but don't have a dedicated "brick and mortar" component.

If I ain't social, I don't know what I am. I've got a gagillion hours of volunteer work too.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Good morning, Freeflying, and welcome.

But very few homeschoolers are without "human contact." On the contrary, they tend to be very active in their communities and are often involved in homeschool co-ops and the like that meet regularly, but don't have a dedicated "brick and mortar" component.

I guess I share Freeflying's suspicion (welcome, FF!), though am willing to be roundly disabused and happily admit that my suspicion is not grounded in any direct experience. I can see that homeschoolers may well be highly socially active.

But I would see those as being very different types of social activity. Going to school involves entering a very different, less controlled kind of social group than joining a community group. It is much larger for one thing. There is far more scope for the "survival of the fittest" type human social behaviour. You have to form your own networks and fight it out with others (metaphorically or literally). You are on your own and have to establish your place within the larger group.

Of course, the "school milieu" is not at all representative of what the rest of your life is going to be like (Thank Eru!), unless you go and work for some massive corporation, so is it necessarily a bad thing to miss out on that?

The other comment I wanted to make was that this discussion has been entirely about the individual's perspective. What about society as a whole? Do public schools encourage social cohesion and greater understanding of other people's circumstances? If everyone was homeschooled, would it exacerbate social divisions?

If just the better off or more motivated take their kids out of public schools, will that a) further reduce the standards of the public schools...

(tentatively, there is some evidence of this from UK experiences where middle class parents send their kids to private school because the local one is gash: this results in a reduction in the performance of those left behind, as the more motivated kids are gone; however, when the middle class kids ARE sent to the public school, they still perform as well individually, and the other kids perform better)

... and b) lead ultimately to a two-tier society.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Actually, some people are officially 'homeschooling" because the cost of having buildings code certified for education is so high that fundraising for a new school can prevent their actually getting educated. If the people who used to start schools want to do that, these days, they're more likely to become "homeschools" where having a building that's ADA safe, has ceiling beams that conform to new codes, etc. isn't required.

Siscuzant, are you telling me that the world's richest country can't afford to build decent schools? That's an absolute disgrace.

[The Gaffer]

Ten Commandments for non faith-based, constitutionally correct education:

1) Thou shalt not kill, except those that stand between you and some stuff you want
2) Thou shalt covet thy neighbour's house, car, furnishings and leisure wear
3) Thou shalt keep the shopping day wholly for purposes of consumption
4) Thou shalt not steal small amounts
5) Thou shalt adhere to the smallest, weakest social unit ever contrived so as to remain enslaved in a torpid state of passive consumption
6) Thou shalt have no other gods before money
7) But thou shalt make idols of the idle rich, just to have something to talk about whilst carrying out #5 and #6.
8) Thou shalt not question the free market
9) Thou shalt keep the government out of thy medicine cabinet
10) Thou shalt seek instant gratification by means of expenditure in all thy problems

[Curufin]

Just my two cents - I've never been a fan of homeschooling. Don't really want to get into the reasons why right now, but I've always thought of it as a bad thing.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Just my two cents - I've never been a fan of homeschooling. Don't really want to get into the reasons why right now, but I've always thought of it as a bad thing.

Post and run...coward.

[Curufin]

Actually, that was more half-awake and half-drugged than cowardly - I sometimes post strangely when I'm sick. I'll elaborate now that I'm more fully conscious.

My problem with home schooling is that it seems to me that people who are generally not qualified are taking their kids out of school and giving them a sub-par education, generally for reasons that I do not consider to be legitimate. Many of these are religious reasons - ones I've heard include not wanting their kids to learn about evolution or the big bang theory, or even for their kids to have sex ed classes. It seems to me that keeping children ignorant is just another way to brainwash them into believing and adhering to fundamentalist religions, and if you have to keep children ignorant in order to do this then maybe your religion has problems..

As for the qualifications, my mother, aunt, and cousins are all educators. I know the education they have had and the time and energy they put into preparing for their work. Teaching is not something that just anyone can do. To be a good teacher is a full-time job that requires education and training. And while a very select few homeschoolers may have this education, my guess would be that the vast majority do not. And while this may be alright when you're teaching very young children, how is someone with a high school education (again, the home school parents of my experience generally have a high school education) going to teach a child physics, biology, calculus, AP government, AP history, AP English, etc. as well as someone who has education and training in the subject? They're not. They're simply not.

Thirdly, socialization. Yes, high school is a miserable time. But it's also the time that you learn how to interact with other people - people who are different from you. Even home schoolers who have social experiences are more likely to have them in their own social circles - not branching out to meet different kinds of people. It's not good for children to be denied this experience. Children should not be raised to believe that everyone is going to be like them - it's going to be quite a shock later in life. The teasing, bullying etc. that takes place in high school, while miserable, is an important part of growing up and learning about society. What are these kids going to do when they first come in contact with this kind of behavior in college, or even worse, when they enter the workforce? It's going to be quite a shock for them.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Rinke, you're viewing this with sterotypes that aren't supported by evidence. The major reason for that is the same as the major reason for most stereotypes...that someone has a vested interest in misleading you. In this case, there's a large conservative industry that wants the image of a million "warriors for God" coming up outside of the public or private school system counted on their team. In fact, home-schooling is much more diverse and secular. Here's a synopsis of recent research on the topic.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homescho...cteristics.asp

Here's a more recent study
http://eus.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/3/307

And here's a feminist homeschooling take.

http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/0...st-parent.html

[Curufin]

Actually, I'm basing it on my personal experience of people who have been homeschooled in my area. Which perfectly fits that stereotype.

[tolkienfan]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Actually, that was more half-awake and half-drugged than cowardly - I sometimes post strangely when I'm sick. I'll elaborate now that I'm more fully conscious.

My problem with home schooling is that it seems to me that people who are generally not qualified are taking their kids out of school and giving them a sub-par education, generally for reasons that I do not consider to be legitimate. Many of these are religious reasons - ones I've heard include not wanting their kids to learn about evolution or the big bang theory, or even for their kids to have sex ed classes. It seems to me that keeping children ignorant is just another way to brainwash them into believing and adhering to fundamentalist religions, and if you have to keep children ignorant in order to do this then maybe your religion has problems..

If you don't mind, I'd like to share my views and experiences. I've been homeschooled since third grade, and know many different homeschoolers.

I learned about many religions as well as the big bang theory, evolution, and sex ed. From what I hear, I would not have learned so much about religion in public school. Even in third grade I was not allowed to mention Jesus during school, and I went to a "good" school. I remember spending a lot of time running errands for the teacher during class because she could rely on me to actually behave and not run off. A lot of time was wasted that I could have spent learning. My parents pulled me out of school because the educational benefit was zero, and socially negative.

Originally Posted by Curufin

As for the qualifications, my mother, aunt, and cousins are all educators. I know the education they have had and the time and energy they put into preparing for their work. Teaching is not something that just anyone can do. To be a good teacher is a full-time job that requires education and training. And while a very select few homeschoolers may have this education, my guess would be that the vast majority do not. And while this may be alright when you're teaching very young children, how is someone with a high school education (again, the home school parents of my experience generally have a high school education) going to teach a child physics, biology, calculus, AP government, AP history, AP English, etc. as well as someone who has education and training in the subject? They're not. They're simply not.

Since junior high, my parents have had little direct involvement in my formal education. What I mean is, they don't teach me science, math, etc. The curriculum I've used was written so that I could teach myself, or rather, learn from the teacher who wrote the book. I did take one online course (Constitutional Law) I feel that my education is in every respect equal and even superior to the average public school education. While I didn't have access to fancy labs, my science program changed my life by interesting me in the subject and affecting how I view the world. (this science program would not be used in a public school, just ask Nurv) I scored high on the SAT and ACT and was accepted by several competitive colleges. I was also awarded a scholarship. I feel prepared to handle the coursework and I'm not afraid to meet new people.

Originally Posted by Curufin

Thirdly, socialization. Yes, high school is a miserable time. But it's also the time that you learn how to interact with other people - people who are different from you. Even home schoolers who have social experiences are more likely to have them in their own social circles - not branching out to meet different kinds of people. It's not good for children to be denied this experience. Children should not be raised to believe that everyone is going to be like them - it's going to be quite a shock later in life. The teasing, bullying etc. that takes place in high school, while miserable, is an important part of growing up and learning about society. What are these kids going to do when they first come in contact with this kind of behavior in college, or even worse, when they enter the workforce? It's going to be quite a shock for them.

I would actually say that the homeschoolers I know are better socialized than the public schoolers I know, precisely because they interact with different people. The public schoolers tend to stay in cliques with people their age, while the homeschoolers branch out and have friends from all over. What is the good of knowing there are people different from you if you just ignore them? The homeschoolers may meet less people, but consequently are more interested in the people they meet. I experienced teasing and bullying, funnily enough when I was in situations such as summer camp with public schoolers. I was most shocked by the teachers/coachs reactions, they generally just ignore it unless one of their favorites is involved. I grew up and learned about society much more without bullies dragging me down. I would say that I took it just as well as anyone else, and at least I tried to stand up for others, most of the rest of the kids just seemed resigned to it. All in all I had a great time in high school, and if I missed out on being miserable that's okay with me.