25 Years in Moria

[Tinman]

I was recently checking some time lines and found the disturbing fact that 25 years had passed from the time that Balin's crew was slaughtered in moria, and the fellowship entered.

Are we really to believe that the dwarves didn't think to check in on him once in a while? Balin was a very important dwarf, and some thing as extreme as restoring the Great dwarven cityo of Kazad dum seems like something that the big wigs might wanna check in on time to time.

And I thought that maybe Gimli was just sheltered, but Oin had gone with Balin... I really doubt some one as important as Gimli, whose fathers brother left, would be clueless to this fact...

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Balin and his people went to Moria against Dain's wishes. A much greater force of Dwarves had already been driven out of Moria in the past. I'm sure Dain thought Balin's expedition and any proposed rescue mission of Balin would be plain suicide. Oppose your king if you must but don't expect him to send out help when you are getting yourself killed.

[Earniel]

Not to mention that Moria is pretty vast, stretching from one side of the Mountain range to the other, how are you going to find a small number of Dwarves in there? You could search for years down there.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

That brings up another question: just how many dwarves were in Balin's company when they tried to re-settle Moria? Are we talking dozens? Hundreds? I wouldn't think thousands but I could be wrong.

[Tinman]

I'm not sure that there is a canon answer for this.

I have the lord of the rings RPG book for moria, which may have an answer... official, but not TOLKIEN official. If you're interested i could do some digging...


or mining

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I was hoping there might be a brief mention somewhere in Letters or HoME. I have little doubt that a specific number was never given but an adjective that might give a clue may exist. . .

Wish I had the time to dig for it. Maybe next week.

[brownjenkins]

I'd think that the lifespan, and stubborness, of the dwarves would have lead to the lack of communication. They seem to be the kind that would be very conservative and introspective, and very unlikely to follow up on things outside of their comfort zone. Just look at how long they left Moria, and Erebor, to their own devices.

[Attalus]

I suspect stubbornness is the keyword, with selfcenteredness as its unstated descriptor.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I think Dain probably had a pretty good idea of what happened to them and was unwilling to risk sending anyone to help. After all, he didn't want to authorize Balin's Moria mission in the first place, presumably because he knew (or strongly suspected) that Balin would run into trouble, so why would he send anyone on a suicide mission to investigate or help?

[Noldori]

However, if Dain knew what was happening, then why didn't he tell Gloin or Gimli? Surely he would tell somebody of his suspicions. I just think it was a lack of communication between the dwarves.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I think Gloin and Gimli strongly suspected the same thing Dain did: that Balin and his people were dead. Gimli wasn't without hope, but I don't recall any optimism from him, either, PJ's "malt beer" "hospitality of the dwarves" lines notwithstanding. Gimli's desire to enter Moria seems motivated by the need to get to the bottom of what happened to Balin's folk, with little hope of actually finding them alive and well.

[Valandil]

From 'The Council of Elrond' it seems like those in Erebor heard from the ones who went to Moria for awhile. But then communication ceased. If word was only periodic at first, they might think nothing when they didn't hear for 1-2 years. Maybe they started to wonder what was going on at 5 years and became quite concerned after a silence of 10 years (it then being ~ 15 years since they had left). Some Dwarves would hold out hope for all those years, and those who figured they had come to a bad end would also figure it was far too late to do anything to help them.

I would suspect that the number of Dwarves who went to Moria was something in the 'dozens' or 'scores' range. Maybe a maximum of 100? Minimum of 30 or 40? It's something I never really thought about before, and I'm totally guessing...

[Alcuin]

Dáin II Ironfoot saw Durin’s Bane when he slew Azog in the doorway of the Great Gate of Moria. He was the only Dwarf at the Battle of Azanulbizar to actually see the Balrog, who held back inside the city even while the orcs were slaughtered outside his very doors! When Thráin declared that the Dwarves controlled Khazad-dûm once more, it was Dáin who told him that Durin’s Bane still awaited him just inside the Great Gate. When Balin announced his expedition to Moria, Dáin opposed it; but Balin’s prominence in Erebor – he had been one of Thorin Oakenshield’s closest friends and advisors, not to mention a member of Thorin & Co. on whose courage, daring, and pains Dáin’s kingdom was partly founded – probably prevented Dáin from stopping the venture outright.

Glóin told Frodo that one of his purposes for visiting Rivendell was to hear anything the Elves might have learned about the fate of Balin’s expedition. He reported in “The Council of Elrond” that

For a while we had news and it seemed good: messages reported that Moria had been entered and a great work begun there. Then there was silence, and no word has ever come from Moria since.

If Dáin believed Balin’s venture ill-fated from the outset and had already seen Durin’s Bane for himself, he must have believed that the monster had overcome Balin’s band. Why should he send more lives to loss? They might be overcome by orcs or by the monster itself: for even if Dáin did not know its true nature, he recognized it for what it was in the history of the Dwarves. In that light, he should be seen as having made the correct decision as a ruler: Khazad-dûm was lost and remained lost. Thrór died there, thousands of Dwarves died in the fruitless Battle of Azanulbizar where he saw Durin’s Bane at the very end of the battle, and Balin and his companions died there. Why should any more Dwarves go there to die? As King Under the Mountain, he must have said, Enough! They are lost. Khazad-dûm is lost. Send no one else.