Thoughts about the European Union.

[Elvellon]

While it started as an Economical community the EU is slowly growing into something much more pervasive. For the first time in History a group of independent states decided to chare a growing number of their sovereign powers among themselves. To some the ultimate end is the creation of a federal state; the United States of Europe.
The idea is not really new. Strange as it may sound it was already in existence and was discussed by Europe’s intellectuals as early as the late XIX century.



So here are a few possible questions to discuss:

Do you think that the EU is a good idea? Is it creating a European identity or is it actually destroying national identities?

Is the Euro a good idea?

Do you believe it will eventually evolve into a federal state? Should it?

Some believe that it is currently impossible for the EU to absorb the eastern European countries without first consolidate the integration of the current member states, what do you think?

Were should the EU borders stop? Should eventually stop at the Mediterranean Sea and Russia? Or should the EU eventually open itself to North African countries (Morocco already made know it’s eventual interest, and I believe others may had too) and to Russia (if the giant neighbour of the EU decides to apply).

And finally, should the EU model be applied at a larger global scale? Could it?

[princess-arwen]

It doesnt really matter whether the Euro is a good idea or not . The euro has already become the curreny in all but two countries of the EU. And now the Euro is just coming in through the back door into the UK, some shops already accept the Euro.

But if you want my opnion Business wise the Euro is a good idea as there will be no need for exchange rates and business peeps will be able to see the difference in price so much more easily, although its going to cost the whole country (UK) a fortune with accepting the Euro as its currency, because everything will have to be changed from every single price tag to the machines that handle money.

As a person living in the UK wise it could be a pain getting use to, and shops are going to take advantage with the change over and increase prices, but the Euro seems simple enough to handle.

It's a hard question to ask theres good points and bad points then again wouldn't it have been much easier to just leave things alone in the EU, was there really a big problem with different currencies? It may have united the EU a bit more but...wasn't it one of the fun things about changing countries in the EU - to exchange your money. And hey what about all those money exchange places, aren't they going to lose some business?

You know what I think I dont like the Euro!!!

[Elvellon]

About the reasons I believe European politicians had to create the Euro you can see them here

[Shadowfax]

I have heard it been said that the European Union (and Euro) are a sign of the "End Times", talked about in the Holy Christian Bible. I would give you quotes but don't know exactly where it says that.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I have heard it been said that the European Union (and Euro) are a sign of the "End Times", talked about in the Holy Christian Bible. I would give you quotes but don't know exactly where it says that.

*Must contain the wrath of the sheep... must contain the wrath of the sheep... must contain the wrath of the sheep... ugh... can't...*

YOU FOOL!

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I have heard it been said that the European Union (and Euro) are a sign of the "End Times", talked about in the Holy Christian Bible. I would give you quotes but don't know exactly where it says that.

Can i recomend a good doctor for you? j/k

*snatches bop's sheep at lets them loose*

[Shadowfax]

ALL I SAID WAS THAT I HEARD SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT THAT SOMEWHERE and they told me where it was in the Bible!!! I HEARD it somewhere!!!!!!!!! Oh my goodness!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
ALL I SAID WAS THAT I HEARD SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT THAT SOMEWHERE and they told me where it was in the Bible!!! I HEARD it somewhere!!!!!!!!! Oh my goodness!

And here I was mistakingly thinking you were a hard-core christian. *Eyes sig*

[Darth Tater]

Tell me shadowfax, how's YOUR rant about the evils of the demonic LOTR coming?

[Andúril]

Shadowfax: ...talked about in the Holy Christian Bible.

Hmmm. The Holy Christian Bible? You mean there's an unholy one? And the Holy Christian Bible? Is there an unChristian Bible?

I wouldn't mind getting me hands on the Blasphemous Damned Bible....

[HOBBIT]

I don't know about you, but my savior is Nugent the pig.

Whats so holy about the world's oldest story book? oh well. *not getting into this*


Hmm this topic has gotten way out of topic due to silliness of a certain horse. Anyway, this topic is supposed to discuss the European Union, anyone actually wanna do that? If not this should be closed. In the anti-american sentiments topic they have been talking about the European Union a bit and it seems like only JD and Cirdan are replying to that and talking to themselves.

[Shadowfax]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I am a Christian. And Yes I believe the Bible is Holy. And Yes I believe there are different versions of the Bible that are NOT God's word (I say that to mean it is Holy). And Yes I believe there are "unChristian" Bibles. Ever heard of Satan's Bible? There is such a thing.

[Shadowfax]

And i THOUGHT this thread was for talking about the European Union, not for talking about personal beliefs, although I don't mind answering questions. But you might not like my answers.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
In the anti-american sentiments topic they have been talking about the European Union a bit and it seems like only JD and Cirdan are replying to that and talking to themselves.

We're talking to each other and enjoying reading our own writing (somebody has to do it)

I've been reasding a good deal about the Balkans (Robert D. Kaplan). It seems that it is very desirable for countries like Romania and Bulgaria to get into NATO because it is a stepping stone to the Euro.

The idea of a European state sounds good as long as the cultural heritages don't get lost in the millieu. I would like to see it grow as large as possible. Everybody is better behaved when they share a common financial interest.

The political environments vary so much and some of the old resentments from the pre-WWII situations. Hungary is said to be adapting well while Romania and Bulgaria are having a difficult time. Of course, the west Balkans is a mess. It's hard to believe that Albania is in Europe and yet is one of the poorest countries in the world.

Horsey, not every conversation requires the christian view, that's all. It's a non sequitur..

[sun-star]

I think the European Union is a good idea, because it makes sense for countries so close to work together. The Euro, however, is a step too far, in my opinion. It might not destroy national identities, but it could bring them into question. Also, I don't like it that in some countries it was decided on without a referendum or vote of any kind. People just had to accept it. I've heard that in some places they don't take euros from other countries anyway, which kind of defeats the purpose.

[HOBBIT]

But see the Euro doesn't take much of their culture away. For example, when I was in England last summer a pub waitress told my family that they didn't want to join the European union because they didn't want to give up their coinage and have the euro ( one reason) because they liked their coins.

I haven't checked the rates in months, but I *think* that the GBP has been doing pretty well so they didn't want to have the Euro because they didn't need it. But the waitress (if thats what you call it there) was refering to the coins themselves. The designs and denominations and such. This makes no sense to me as English currency has been changing for a while. They are hardly using an old coin system. In the 60's they switched to a decimal system of coins (100 pence = pound). So thats not that old. Beats me. I suspect that England will join if it becomes wildly successful and it would be to their benefit.


As for loosing their national identities, the euro does not do this. Sure, they are loosing their coin denominations, but NOT the deisgns. I have some french euro coins. True the franc is no more, but they still get their own design on French euros. On the front of the coins there is one common design: the denomination and a picture of Europe. The reverse, however, is up to the country. France has designs similiar to the frank. Like the same lady on the Franc is on the 50 , 20, and 10 cent piece. There are other cool designs as well. Its NOT the same coin in all countries, they all make their own with different designs on the back.

[noldo]

National identities in Europe have long been lost. They still might exist in some countries, in some forms of traditons and festivities waiting to loose their importance or original meaning or simply stop existing at all... Western Europe has lived in unity for the last half century... Moving into internationality and then, more and more cultural similarity, has long happened before the coming of Euro.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by noldo
National identities in Europe have long been lost. They still might exist in some countries, in some forms of traditons and festivities waiting to loose their importance or original meaning or simply stop existing at all... Western Europe has lived in unity for the last half century... Moving into internationality and then, more and more cultural similarity, has long happened before the coming of Euro.

Is this true in the countryside in Finland as well? I know here in the USA that most urban areas are becoming more similar, but the very rural areas retain some unique qualities (for better or worse).

[noldo]

Well, the urban Finland and country-side Finland don't differ too much because the cities really are so small. There must be about only 500 000 people living in the capital, Helsinki...

[Spock]

Having returned from Spain I can tell you that the Euro has all the pricing rounded UP and that ain't good.

As far as the E.U. none of my friends over there think it's a good idea or one that will last.

They still haven't managed to round up 60,000 troops for their 'rapid reaction' force and they sure as hell don't want the US out of the Balkans which would mean they have to take care of their own.