Time to put your foot down!

[Grey_Wolf]

First of all I’m not saying that forums and blogsites are areas of utmost danger.
It is the placing important personal information for anyone to access who wants to and are persistant enough that is my focus in this article.

The gradual dehumanization of our lives by the introduction of the internet and cellphone has gone to far. The younger generations have totally lost perspective in their eagerness to embrace everything that make things easier and quicker to access.
Not a thought is given to the fact that the internet is NOT supersafe, impregnable fortress!
Innocent people get their identities stolen, their accounts hacked into and emptied and their lives ruined. But I suppose that the overenthusiastic embracers of the unfettered digitalization of every day life couldn’t care less about this highly negative aspect of this major change in our society.
Now there is even talk of getting rid of cash cards. The cells are supposed to be used for every kind of transaction.
We who do not want to bullied into getting our lives totally mobilized and internetized will in the end have to give in, unfortunately.
The digitalization-enthusiasts cannot comprehend a world where interaction between people is not done via computers. The actual physical meeting and conversation between people are beyond their understanding.
Instead they want dehumanize the world via the use of computers, the internet and cellphones. And, it goes without saying, make it easier for criminals to invade the privacy and ruin the lives of innocent people.
Fight the tyranny of digitalization! Reclaim your lives! Don’t let the authorities and companies bully you into submission! Resist the dehumanization of our society!
This is a call to arms for all people who’ve had enough and who have been abused by incompetent authorities and companies and who is out for justice!
Let your voices be heard!

[Earniel]

I take it this post is not in gest, although I'm not quite sure.

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

The digitalization-enthusiasts cannot comprehend a world where interaction between people is not done via computers. The actual physical meeting and conversation between people are beyond their understanding.
Instead they want dehumanize the world via the use of computers, the internet and cellphones.

Do you really think the goal of internet-technology is to dehumanise people, rather than, say an unfortunate by-product of it? I have to say I'm not always a new technology enthusiast myself, but I yet have to meet someone who was to whom meeting people face to face was an impossible concept.

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I take it this post is not in gest, although I'm not quite sure.
Do you really think the goal of internet-technology is to dehumanise people, rather than, say an unfortunate by-product of it? I have to say I'm not always a new technology enthusiast myself, but I yet have to meet someone who was to whom meeting people face to face was an impossible concept.

I didnt say it was impossible. It is the need of going over to a friend has become unnecessary. I can call them.

And the mantra "got to our homepage, go to my our homepage, go to our homepage" that is repeated on tv and in radio, in absurdum, like some kind new hare krishna chanting, many people find irritating. The actual act of calling a company or the office of many authorities has become so much harder. A lot of people actually still want someone to talk to.

Do you understand this? Or are these people throwbacks who will soon be gone and then the Brave New World will belong to those who have "educated" themselves.

[Mari]

I wonder: who, in your post, is supposed to represent 'they'? Is 'they' the same as 'the man' of the sixties?
I also do not understand how paying with mobile phones rather than with a card (which is by no means safe either) dehumanises anyone.

Your opening statement does not really correspond with the main line of your manifesto. I'm also pretty sure that people who want to get your information to use it for bad ends will get that information anyway, whether it is digitised or not. Effectually it might be easier to protect your online identity than your real life one, where all thieves need to do is steal your passport or bankcard whereas online you can use proxies etc. Rather than saying the digital world is bad and it needs to be stopped, you should worry about getting people educated about the dangers of the Internet and how to protect oneself.

[Grey_Wolf]

I didnt say that all activity on the internet and all cellphonization are bad. What I object to is the naiveté that people display. Put everything on the cellphone - let it be the hub of your lfe.

Ok, I'm a fool who do not see the immeasurable, paradisical wonderworld that comes from the digitalization of all aspects of life. And, as for protecting people from harm, the hackers are getting smarter by the day and steadily find new ways of getting in no matter what precautions authorities and private persons take. Tell the widow who has had her estatepapers stolen and her home taken from her by the criminal stealing the information from the computor of the office in charge of estate legislation. You should have taken greater care and protected yourself! wont help her - she still doesnt have a home anymore. Good luck with your life on the street, lady.

Or do you have an answer to her that will do some good?

Getting to my information physically would involve the actual breaking into the office housing the information the criminal want to get his/her hands on, not just pressing a few buttons and mouse-clicks.

But, of course, we will be "protected" for all eternity - no one will ever get to essential information - since we "protect" it so diligantly.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

Tell the widow who has had her estatepapers stolen and her home taken from her by the criminal stealing the information from the computor of the office in charge of estate legislation. You should have taken greater care and protected yourself! wont help her - she still doesnt have a home anymore. Good luck with your life on the street, lady.

Are there any documented cases of this kind of identity theft, of someone losing their house over it? In all cases I have heard about, when it becomes clear it was a theft, the police handle the matter... i.e. the woman would not, in the case you mention, be without a home.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

I didnt say that all activity on the internet and all cellphonization are bad. What I object to is the naiveté that people display. Put everything on the cellphone - let it be the hub of your lfe.

Ok, I'm a fool who do not see the immeasurable, paradisical wonderworld that comes from the digitalization of all aspects of life. And, as for protecting people from harm, the hackers are getting smarter by the day and steadily find new ways of getting in no matter what precautions authorities and private persons take. Tell the widow who has had her estatepapers stolen and her home taken from her by the criminal stealing the information from the computor of the office in charge of estate legislation. You should have taken greater care and protected yourself! wont help her - she still doesnt have a home anymore. Good luck with your life on the street, lady.

Or do you have an answer to her that will do some good?

Getting to my information physically would involve the actual breaking into the office housing the information the criminal want to get his/her hands on, not just pressing a few buttons and mouse-clicks.

But, of course, we will be "protected" for all eternity - no one will ever get to essential information - since we "protect" it so diligantly.

Now now, you are reacting rather vehemently. What happened? You sound positively enraged...

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

Ok, I'm a fool who do not see the immeasurable, paradisical wonderworld that comes from the digitalization of all aspects of life. And, as for protecting people from harm, the hackers are getting smarter by the day and steadily find new ways of getting in no matter what precautions authorities and private persons take.

Woah, buddy, no need to get so defensive. Internet and technology is neither all good and paradisical or all bad and end-of-civilisation-like. All I'm saying is that that we should be allowed to see shades of grey and not be called names if we see some benefit in new technologies.

It's okay to find issues with new technology, but to paint it like an inescapable degradation of everything and devoid of any worth (like you appear to do in your first post) is not particularly accurate nor helpful.

[Valandil]

I read that first post when you put it up, but, uh... I wasn't sure what it was I was supposed to DO. Like... where exactly do I put my foot down?

I guess I didn't exactly feel bullied or dehumanized or digitized by the authorities and companies.

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I read that first post when you put it up, but, uh... I wasn't sure what it was I was supposed to DO. Like... where exactly do I put my foot down?

I guess I didn't exactly feel bullied or dehumanized or digitized by the authorities and companies.

No, I don't suppose you do. Besides, it is way too late. I am Don Quijote fighting imagined web-based windmills, I guess.

[Grey_Wolf]

Thanks, Earn! I suppose that I didnt really feel that this text served any purpose. The generation that has grown up with easy access to everything via the inernet and the cell phone being the hub of their lives don't really see it as a problem. And it is too late. Mankind has always evolved and technology with it. It is and has always been the way of things. Oherwise we would have been stuck with firs and fire.

I also suppose that I was feeling overwhelmed by the rush towards the future (I think the progressive people have a bit of the damn-the-torpedoes attitude) and afraid of the inherent risk of mayhem and disaster in this process.

[Insidious Rex]

Although a bit overdramtic, Grey Wolf is correct to be cautious about our current technology because it certainly can be risky. Not so much what YOU put online but what the companies who represent you put online. Its almost daily that we hear of banks or medical companies or financial institutions being hacked into and some huge number of credit card numbers or social security numbers or other extremely vital aspect of one's personnel or financial existence being stolen and used by criminals. This was a lot harder to do when everything was on paper. Now sophisticated operations can be set up from some remote location in Russia or China or wherever and they can reach out and access computer systems from all over the world if they know what they are doing. And the Russian mafia pays top dollar for the best kind of computer hackers...

Because this is all so new people CAN be really effected when this kind of data theft or identity theft happens. Its not so easy as just telling the police and everything is fine. In most cases your credit is shot no matter what and YOU have to go through the long arduous task of trying to fix it and inform dozens of institutions what happened. Thats hard to do because we dont really have the infrastructure to do it yet. If your house burns down and you have insurance its a pretty straight forward process to go through to get back on your feet and in a new home. But when your identity is taken or destroyed its a lot of hard messy work. In the past few years companies have started up that specialize in either monitoring your credit information for identity theft or help you piece things back together when and if something happens. But its still a new frontier so be careful and hope for the best. You cant really live off the grid anymore in any real practical sense. Your bank and your insurance company is going to put your information into digital form no matter what YOU do. So its helpful to do a little research and take all the precautions that you can. Its your future and your families future that may be at risk.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

Thanks, Earn! I suppose that I didnt really feel that this text served any purpose.

Well, this is a discussion forum and not just a soap box (although a good number of them are lying around here.) So one can expect people won't always agree with everything you say.

If you will take some time to allow the discussion to unfold, I'm sure you will find a good number of people here to have some doubts and misgivings about the speed of technological process and how internet social networks work these days. I know I am one. But I'd like to think that technology does have benefits, as well as drawbacks. Whether the former outway the latter is another matter.

The generation that has grown up with easy access to everything via the inernet and the cell phone being the hub of their lives don't really see it as a problem.

Hm, there are a few generations now using the internet and cellphones. And while kids these days may have grown up with those things readily available, they too will have to learn their dangers sooner or later. I'm sure there are people in every generation that jump on new technology without taking the necessary precautions, so lets not just blame the young.

I also suppose that I was feeling overwhelmed by the rush towards the future.

Hah, I highly doubt you'd be the only one! Sometimes it feels like one can't keep up. I just got used to the idea of burning my own CD's when I saw that there are MP3-players that can hold my entire collection the size of sugar cubes. Now you've got USB-sticks with more memory than my old computer ever possessed, wrapped up in something the size of a hair pin. Astounding.

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Although a bit overdramtic, Grey Wolf is correct to be cautious about our current technology because it certainly can be risky. Not so much what YOU put online but what the companies who represent you put online. Its almost daily that we hear of banks or medical companies or financial institutions being hacked into and some huge number of credit card numbers or social security numbers or other extremely vital aspect of one's personnel or financial existence being stolen and used by criminals.

Amen, and every company lately always wants to have every detail of personal information, whether they'd need it for customer service or not. Seriously, you don't need my email for just a percentage card.

A couple of years ago, I got a letter from my bank saying they had lost the copy of my ID card and could I get to an office to provide a new one right away?! I couldn't help but think: "If you're that sloppy with my data, do I want to know how sloppy you are with my money?" Eventually, it turned out they still had the copy, and my trip was wasted, but they took a new copy just in case. Seriously, why did they send the letter in the first place? It sure wasn't to increase customer confidence...

And the worse part is that some of those firms can't even be bothered with a decent dataprotection either.

[Rían]

You know what's really weird - I bank with a major bank, and we usually get called at least once a year to tell us that they think our credit card or debit card number has been stolen, and they check some charges with us and send us a new card. All fine and good. But the really stupid thing is that they call on my home phone and leave a message to call the (bankname) fraud hotline. When I call the hotline, what do they do? They ask me for my account number! Now that is one of the cardinal sins - NEVER call a number that you aren't absolutely SURE about and give them your account number! (or give your number to someone that calls you)

I declined to give it to them and explained why (and they totally understood!), and instead called the number on my bank statement and asked for the fraud department and got to it that way. I even stopped by my bank and told the manager that how they are doing this encourages a really stupid behavior, but I just got another call a month ago with the same thing

NEVER give out your numbers to a phone number you don't know about!

[Nerdanel]

.. they do that? the banks i have accounts with always make sure to tell us that they never, ever ask for account numbers, banking codes, or any other information like that.

[brownjenkins]

It's no different than the door to door insurance salesman scams back in the old days. It's more of a human thing than a internet thing. You gotta keep your guard up!

http://books.eserver.org/fiction/poe/diddling.html