frodos dream

i was planning to give you guys a rest for a few more days but then i read this, and got puzzled. i can understand most of the dreams and visions that people in lotr get but this one...? if anyone can help me i would be glad. here it is. from the last paragraph of 'a conspiracy unmasked'

Eventually he fell into a vague dream, in which he seemed to be looking out of a high window over a dark sea of tangled trees. Down below among the roots there was the sound of creatures crawling and snuffling. He felt sure they would smell him out sooner or later.

Then he heard a noise in the distance. At first he thought it was a great windcoming over the leaves of the forest. Then he knew that it was not leaves, but the sound of the sea far-off, a sound that he had never heard in his waking life, though it had often troubled his dreams. Suddenly he found he was out in the open. there were no trees after all. He was on a dark heath, and there was a strange salt smell in the air. Looking up he saw before him a tall white tower, standing alone on a high ridge. A great desire came over him to climb the tower and see the Sea. he started to struggle up the ridge towards the tower: but suddenly a light came in the sky, and there was a noise if thunder.

some parts i understand but the rest... i need help here!

sorry, noise OF thunder and wind coming... :lol: my typos.. and i checked it very carefully!

It seems to me that the dreams in LOTR often contain potents of the future in them. In the first scene of this dream, there seems to be an indication of the episode where the fellowship first enters Lorien and must spend the night in the trees. The creatures could either be the company of Orcs which comes after the fellowship, or Gollum who actually does climb partway up the tree in his search for the Ring (or it could be both). I could also see these creatures as Ringwraiths, who do a lot of crawling and suffling. This part of the dream also contains a general element of Frodo in the role of the hunted, as he certainly was as long as he bore the Ring.

The part about the Sea foreshadows the end when Frodo actually crosses the Sea to Eressea. The tower could be the Elven tower for which the Tower Hills were named, and one could presume that Frodo and Sam passed this way when Frodo seeks the Grey Havens at the end. I find this part of the dream similar to Faramir, in the sense that Frodo is dreaming about something he has never actually seen. Faramir mentions that he often dreams of the Fall of Numenor when in reality he is too young by more than 3 thousand years to have seen it. (And did even Elendil actuall see the Fall? I would think he'd have had to been pretty far away so as not to get caught up in it.) I think JRRT even mentions in Letters that he'd often had an Atlantis dream similar to Faramir's.

The last sentence in your quote is interesting. It seems Frodo wants to see the Sea but he is prevented from doing so by a coming storm. Just as in the story, where, before he is able to see the Sea and then pass over it, he must ride out the coming storm (the Quest/War of the Ring).

Edited to correct a small error in Faramir's age.

nice i like that explanation. i would go with gollum instead of black riders tho. thanks! but if anyone else has ideas i won't ignore them either..

I think it has more to do with the early versions of the LOTR. As I remember, this was the original dream where he saw Gandalf. The towers were the Emyn Beriad and the Nine had trapped the Wizard there. I could be wrong as it has been at least a year or so since I read Return of the Shadow.

I found a reference to the dream in question in "Return of the Shadow". I don't know if this is the only version of this dream or not... Unless there's a separate reference for the second half of the dream as it appears in FOTR. It does seem the dream Frodo has in the published LOTR is two separate dreams stuck together. It's been even longer since I read ROTS.
Anyway, FWIW, here is the reference: "Bingo [note for those who haven't read the HOME series, Bingo was Frodo's original name.] could not go to sleep for some time: his legs ached. He was glad he was riding in the morning. At last he fell asleep into a vague dream, in which he seemed to be lying under a willow that looked out into a sea of tangled trees: outside there was a snuffling."
I think it's interesting here that there's a foreshadowing of the Old Man Willow scene that didn't make it into LOTR.

I have to go with Eruve's original explination, that's what I got when I first read it myself. I agree the the orc possibility, that's how I see it anyways.

So where do people in Middle-Earth get their precognitive/prophetic/insightful dreams? From their own magic? A palantir-like thing? From the Valar (evidence that they might be a step more directly involved) or other Maiar (Olorin "inspired" people with visions of wisdom)? From Eru himself? I'm thinking of the Faramir/Boromir dream "Seek for the Sword that was Broken" especially--it seemed to come from a person and with a purpose, occuring repeatedly and in clear verse.

hmmm, interesting question...

i cannot see an answer save "divine providence": Manwe, as the true player of the music of the Ainur. I´ll think a little more on that.