Your thoughts on animal rights

[osszie]

They took me to the battlefield
Saw the mushroom clouds
Said 'I can see the colours
Even when my head is bowed'
And they showed me the destruction
The slaughter a la carte
And isn't nature wonderful
But is this art?

They took me to the hospital
And pulled aside the sheet
Said 'Look at that pulsating.
Just listen to the beat'
And they showed me the incision
Then took away the heart
And isn't nature wonderful
But is this art?

They took me to the scientist,
Who opened up a phial
He said 'This is only chicken pox
And rhino bile'
And they showed me what it did to mice
They said 'This is just the start'
And isn't nature wonderful
But is this art?

They took me to the tenement
And kicked down the door
They said:'Have you seen the copulation,
Practised by the poor
We select the ones to breed
Then we reject the part'
And isn't nature wonderful
But is this art?

geez I need to stop posting in here while under the influence

[Erawyn]

We also save and protect many animals too.

I know this was said awhile ago, but it bothered me. They wouldn't need protecting in the first place if it wasn't for us. we're just trying to fix what we did in the past.

While i'm not against doing animal testing to do something like find a cure for cancer, smearing bleach in the eye of a rabbit (and rabbits have no tear ducts) really has no purpose imho.
Also i think it is extremely important for us to preserve as much natural habitat and wildlife as possible. It seems to me that people disassociate themselves with for lack of a better phrase, the natural world, but in reality we really can't (and i don't know why we would want to) survive without it. And this is sort of off topic but electric cars are a good idea. many people die from bad air quality (fossil fuel emissions) and i for one am sick of being told not to go outside because the air is yellow and i'll get dizzy if i breath it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Erawyn
And this is sort of off topic but electric cars are a good idea. many people die from bad air quality (fossil fuel emissions) and i for one am sick of being told not to go outside because the air is yellow and i'll get dizzy if i breath it.

Electric cars only move the pollution generation from the car to the power plant. If you powerup the vehicle using an "outlet" that gets it's electricity from coal burning power plant then you're actually doing more harm than using a gas engine. Not to mention that the fuel cells still need to be disposed of.

Hydorgen cars would be good - but we don't have hydrogen stations. And they won't be built until there are sopme people with hydrogen cars. It's a catch 22. The east coast and west coast would probably get those stations before the midwest does. Which means that you wouldn't be able to drive too far beyond where you knew there was a station to fill up at. Makes the use of the car pretty limited unless it allows the use of gas too for emergencies.

[cassiopeia]

I am referring to the original questions: what do I think of animal rights. I am very very strongly against animal cruelty of any kind. I would like to make some points about what people have said:

1. Animals do rape and kill, but they do it to preserve thier genes. Most of the time we do it for power, not for directly preserving our genes. Animals don't delibrately hurt others. Humans do. I saw on TV some teenagers push a sheep off a cliff. Why? It sickened me.

2. If your were really against animal testing (I am for silly things like cosmetics) for serious diseases, wouldn't you refuse treatment, not be yourself tested?

3. I don't think, say, hanging a dog up by it's neck is the same as someone having an abortion. Thats all I will say about that one.

[Andúril]

I do not believe that any animals should have any rights.

And don't forget that humans are animals.

[Andúril]

Emplonk:
Honistly, animal rightes are redicuolious.

As is your spelling...

And no, I haven't misquoted here.

More:
during the birth process, the doctor jammed some sissors into the animals skull and made a hole, and then used a vacuum-like device to suck it's brains out? Well, it happens to human babies every day...

And? What?

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
2. If your were really against animal testing (I am for silly things like cosmetics) for serious diseases, wouldn't you refuse treatment, not be yourself tested?

I think they do not need to make things that require testing. But I don't rule the society.

Originally posted by Anduril
I do not believe that any animals should have any rights.

And don't forget that humans are animals.

Did I mention how much I love you?

[Andúril]

RE:
Did I mention how much I love you?

No.

[confused look on face]Hmmmmm[/confused look on face]

Can I love you back?

[Rána Eressëa]

As the evil spawn of you and BoP . . . yes.

[Andúril]

And so shall it be.

Goddess BoP, Hardcore Pope Anduril, and their evil spawn, Rána Eressëa.

[Erawyn]

If you powerup the vehicle using an "outlet" that gets it's electricity from coal burning power plant then you're actually doing more harm than using a gas engine.

More harm? meh i don't think so, because already there are many coal burning electricty plants, but eliminating exhaust from cars would make a huge difference to the health of the planet. And there are other ways to get electricity...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Erawyn
More harm? meh i don't think so, because already there are many coal burning electricty plants, but eliminating exhaust from cars would make a huge difference to the health of the planet. And there are other ways to get electricity...

Do you know how you get your electricity? Do you have a choice what power generation system you get your electicity? Most people don't have a choice on where they get their electricity. If you get your electricity from a coal powered plant - and you buy an electric car - most likely your whole area gets it's electricity from the same power plant - which means that coal would be used to power your car - not electricy (which is only the end product of the coal power plant).

People that stress the use of electric cars - only think of the end result of electricity - not the fact that the electric needs to be generated from some power plant.

Also - if more electricity is needed to power electric cars - then the power plants boost production. This causes more pollution - again just moving the pollution from the car to the power plant. Which, if it's a coal plant - produces more pollution than the gas car that the electric one replaced.

[Erawyn]

Yes if electric cars became mainstream the coal plants of course would then become a larger problem then they are now. But if anyone felt the need to make an actual change for the better, there are other ways to supply those cars with electricity such as hydro-electricity, wind powered electricity etc.

[BeardofPants]

We have hydro-dams. I'm afraid I must agree with JD on this one. Although carbon emissions (in my book) are less harmful than carbon monoxide, it is still one tradeoff for another evil, really. Although, I do see your point, Erawyn, in that coal plants are less harmful than the current situation. BUT this solution would still entail the depletion of precious earth resources. There has to be a better way. Hydro technology sounds better; but I'm holding out for teleportation!

(Don't forget solar power!)

[Sween]

theres allways geo thermal. Ok back on topic i allow the same rights that animals give to each other and that is none so animals fair have rights

[Rána Eressëa]

All acts of "evil" any animal commits upon another animal are prosecutable only by the group of animals that are pissed of. And only if they can catch him/her. If an animal kills/harms someone (one of your own species or not) you love, you should be able to challenge them to hand-to-hand / hand-to-foot / foot-to-foot combat. Government, or any groups of laws, are to be terminated because those nosey bastards who developed them need to mind their own business and stop trying to control the world.

[Sween]

my point is that animals dont worry about eating one another so we should not either. if animals were the smartest animals (and lets face it thats what keeps us at the top of the food chain) they would not afford us such libitys.

[Rána Eressëa]

Almost all things worry about survival, so they can fight for it all they want, but I think humans have taken it too far. Banning the killing of your own species will someday lead to over-population, which will eventually kill us all because we'll run out of resources and supplies.

All other animals are smart: let the weak ones die; they just take up space any way.

[Sween]

population size is a major problem. Is it china where they restrict the number of children you can have? thats not such a bad idea. The big problem is people are simply not dieing these days. My nan and grandad require full time care and attention from the NHS do we need to reconsider how long we let people live?

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Sween
my point is that animals dont worry about eating one another so we should not either. if animals were the smartest animals (and lets face it thats what keeps us at the top of the food chain) they would not afford us such libitys.

Sure. We're omnivorous animals. Let us eat meat. This is not the problem though. The problems lie with culling too much food; wastage, etc, ensures that some of the populations are not having a chance to retain their numbers. The only animals that DO have a chance at this, are those in captivity. It seems that this is the only chance that animals have against us; to be useful in captivity, because those in the wild are slowly losing their niches, and their population numbers. It is possible that within our lifetime, the tiger will be lost forever; as with the croc, and other so-called predatorial animals. Only those in captivity are safe. The problem is that many animals do not breed very well in captivity. And is this what we really want for our children, and our childrens children? For them to only see these majestic creatures in captivity?

People are irresponsible with their culling; salmon are not having a chance to reproduce successfully, because fishermen, and salmon farmers are depleting the fish stocks by taking out the bigger individuals for commercialism - it is the bigger fish that lay more eggs.... this leads to fish stock depletion. Japanese still hunt endangered whale species. The cheeky buggers even come into the Antartic circle - where they're protected - and try and steal them. Niche depletion occurs everyday. In the Brazilian rainforest, forests the size of two rugby fields are being depleted every day. 30,000 species are being lost to us every year. I saw a tv show the other day ("Sapphire and Steel") and it's premise was that people 1500 years in the future had no use for animals at all, so there were none. Do we really want our world to be like this? I say, eat our meat; it's what made us get bigger brains in the first place (Wheeler hypothesis), but do it responsibly. Use our strengths, not just to our advantage, but for theirs as well. It is, afterall, on the backs of other animals, that our species has become so advantageous. So, let us thank them, not by killing them off, and wiping our their homes, but by trying to help out, by using our "power" wisely; by making intelligent decisions that are not just about us, but the animals we share this world with.

/* End tirade.