Can The Tolkien Estate ALWAYS Hold The Silmarillion Rights?

Pippin Skywalker · 06-12-2003, 11:48 PM

I mean it's a shame Tolkien hadn't finished the Silmarillion so he could lend the rights like with LOTR

But for how long technically can they hold on to those rights? Can there be a negotiation on them? I AM aware people have tried and failed...but I want them precioussss lol.

Please tell me your thoughts

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-13-2003, 12:08 AM

I'm not quite sure how that works, but unless Tolkien himself had made some stipulation in his will to sell the rights, then I would think that his children hold them and it is their choice to sell them or not.

Also, since they didn't seem to keen on the LotRs movie being made, I highly doubt you will see them selling the rights to the Silmarillion in the near future.

Anglorfin · 06-13-2003, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair

Also, since they didn't seem to keen on the LotRs movie being made, I highly doubt you will see them selling the rights to the Silmarillion in the near future.

I can only hope you're right.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-13-2003, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anglorfin
I can only hope you're right.

Me too. I do not wish to see a movie of the Silmarillion made. It is just too good of a book for that.

Anglorfin · 06-13-2003, 12:38 AM

Well I am not up to date with my England copyright laws and all but over in the states it seems that if you have enough money you could buy whatever material you want. Especially if the creator is dead it's usually disastrous to leave everything with the kids. Thank god Christopher Tolkien actually respects what his dad has done.

Sheeana · 06-13-2003, 12:59 AM

Doesn't copyright only last for a certain amount of years after the author's death? And then it becomes public domain?

***azalea*** · 06-13-2003, 08:57 AM

I think if someone keeps renewing the copyright it stays under their control, but then again, haven't some songs come under public domain, and the artists are still living? I'm not sure how that works.

Falagar · 06-13-2003, 09:23 AM

Quote:

too. I do not wish to see a movie of the Silmarillion made. It is just too good of a book for that.

Same here.

Quote:

Doesn't copyright only last for a certain amount of years after the author's death? And then it becomes public domain?

Shouldn't, in a way, C.T. be considered "co-author"? No Christoffer, no Silmarillion. He put the texts in order and wrote some of the texts there. So Hollywood will have to wait until a certain amount of years after his deatyh before they can get their hands on The Silmarillion. Hopefully, I'm dead before that happens...

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-14-2003, 04:47 PM

Tolkien didn't "lend" the rights. If I remember correctly, he was a bit tight for cash, and he sold them, though I'm not sure.

Anyway, I agree, the Silmarillion is not a book that can be translated to film. Too much happens, it takes place over, what, five hundred years, and so on, and so forth.

Attalus · 06-14-2003, 08:31 PM

But, how about individual episodesin the Sil? You wouldn't like to see a movie made, say, of the story of Beren and Luthien?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-14-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
But, how about individual episodesin the Sil? You wouldn't like to see a movie made, say, of the story of Beren and Luthien?

Well, that's probably the only way you would be able to do the Silmarillion justice, but no, I don't want to see any part of it made into a movie.

They could never get Finrod right.

gimli7410 · 06-14-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Also, since they didn't seem to keen on the LotRs movie being made, I highly doubt you will see them selling the rights to the Silmarillion in the near future.

i hope not. that would be a confusing movie and PJ would mess it up if he directed it

Diamond of Long Cleeve · 06-15-2003, 05:01 AM

Under the relevant international treaty, the Berne Convention, copyright lasts for the lifetime of the author plus fifty years. The idea was that the author and his/her immediate family should benefit from the fruits of his/her creativity. (The term has recently been extended in the USA and by European Union directive to life plus seventy years). An exception applies to unpublished works - the time period starts from the year of first publication. So because The Sil was first published posthumously it will have a slightly longer copyright period.

While copyright lasts, you need permission from the owner to make copies etc.

The author is the first owner but the author can sell all or parts of the copyright. I understand that Professor Tolkien sold the film rights to LotR way back. That's why his family had no say in the PJ film.

Eventually the copyright in everything runs out and the work isthen said to be in the "public domain". And then any billy goat can mess with it.

Sheeana · 06-15-2003, 06:22 AM

Thanks, Diamond. I had an idea that was how it worked.

Attalus · 06-15-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, that's probably the only way you would be able to do the Silmarillion justice, but no, I don't want to see any part of it made into a movie.

They could never get Finrod right.

Hmm, somebody tall, noble, and golden-haired? How about Liam Neeson in a Legolas-wig? Luthien I'll have to think on.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-15-2003, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
Hmm, somebody tall, noble, and golden-haired? How about Liam Neeson in a Legolas-wig? Luthien I'll have to think on.

Hmph! Easy for you to say.

Attalus · 06-15-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Hmph! Easy for you to say.

Aw, tell us what you really think.

06-12-2003, 11:48 PM	#1
Pippin Skywalker Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 93	Can The Tolkien Estate ALWAYS Hold The Silmarillion Rights? I mean it's a shame Tolkien hadn't finished the Silmarillion so he could lend the rights like with LOTR But for how long technically can they hold on to those rights? Can there be a negotiation on them? I AM aware people have tried and failed...but I want them precioussss lol. Please tell me your thoughts __________________ Gimli: I'm Short! I'm Bad! I'm King of Khazaad! Note: That was not an actual quote from J.R.R. Tolkien's novel!

06-13-2003, 12:08 AM	#2
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	I'm not quite sure how that works, but unless Tolkien himself had made some stipulation in his will to sell the rights, then I would think that his children hold them and it is their choice to sell them or not. Also, since they didn't seem to keen on the LotRs movie being made, I highly doubt you will see them selling the rights to the Silmarillion in the near future. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

06-13-2003, 12:38 AM	#5
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Well I am not up to date with my England copyright laws and all but over in the states it seems that if you have enough money you could buy whatever material you want. Especially if the creator is dead it's usually disastrous to leave everything with the kids. Thank god Christopher Tolkien actually respects what his dad has done. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

06-14-2003, 04:47 PM	#9
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Tolkien didn't "lend" the rights. If I remember correctly, he was a bit tight for cash, and he sold them, though I'm not sure. Anyway, I agree, the Silmarillion is not a book that can be translated to film. Too much happens, it takes place over, what, five hundred years, and so on, and so forth. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-14-2003, 08:31 PM	#10
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	But, how about individual episodesin the Sil? You wouldn't like to see a movie made, say, of the story of Beren and Luthien? __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

06-13-2003, 12:59 AM	#6
Sheeana Lord of the Pants Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,382	Doesn't copyright only last for a certain amount of years after the author's death? And then it becomes public domain?

06-13-2003, 08:57 AM	#7
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I think if someone keeps renewing the copyright it stays under their control, but then again, haven't some songs come under public domain, and the artists are still living? I'm not sure how that works.

06-15-2003, 05:01 AM	#13
Diamond of Long Cleeve Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 569	Under the relevant international treaty, the Berne Convention, copyright lasts for the lifetime of the author plus fifty years. The idea was that the author and his/her immediate family should benefit from the fruits of his/her creativity. (The term has recently been extended in the USA and by European Union directive to life plus seventy years). An exception applies to unpublished works - the time period starts from the year of first publication. So because The Sil was first published posthumously it will have a slightly longer copyright period. While copyright lasts, you need permission from the owner to make copies etc. The author is the first owner but the author can sell all or parts of the copyright. I understand that Professor Tolkien sold the film rights to LotR way back. That's why his family had no say in the PJ film. Eventually the copyright in everything runs out and the work isthen said to be in the "public domain". And then any billy goat can mess with it. __________________ On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.

06-15-2003, 06:22 AM	#14
Sheeana Lord of the Pants Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,382	Thanks, Diamond. I had an idea that was how it worked.

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