G.R.R. Martin

[Millane]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm now up to ASoS: Part I. Will kindly expect you two to NOT spoil any surprises, or your pants will get it. Seriously, please use those wonderful lil' spoiler tags if yer gonna be meanies and laugh at some of my theories.

Who's laughing, i told you im convinced it makes so much sense now. Also i had a look around on the net and read somewhere that Martin said Jons background will be cleared up in the upcoming books, so as far as i can tell that could really only mean Rhaegar (goody) and Lyanna... have you read anything of the unsillied i know they were in Storm but im not really sure where, one of Martins coolest creations (and no before you start bitching that was in no way a spoiler )
Falagar, any thoughts on Jons real parents?

[Falagar]

I'm not sure about that. It may very well be that Rhaegar and Lyanna are the parents, but after having seen all the evidence around it seems a bit too obvious...Actually, I think he may actually be the bastard-son of Ned.

If you visit the Song of Ice and Fire-board on ezBoards you'll find a whole lot of wacky theories. For example, one of the most frequent I've seen is that Tyrion, Dany and Jon will be the riders of the three dragons...

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Falagar
...Actually, I think he may actually be the bastard-son of Ned.

Honestly, if it is true, I'll be really surprised, since Ned was so... honourable. Of course, it could be, that he just couldn't fight 'fate', or whatever GRR's talking about.

...one of the most frequent I've seen is that Tyrion, Dany and Jon will be the riders of the three dragons...

Well, it's not so wacky really. Aren't they all descendants, or in Jon's case, theorised descendants of the Targaryens?

Yes, Millaine, I have read a little of the Unsullied, in that Dany is attempting to recruit some, but I'm not up to very far in the book - she's still on the ship bound for pentos.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Honestly, if it is true, I'll be really surprised, since Ned was so... honourable. Of course, it could be, that he just couldn't fight 'fate', or whatever GRR's talking about.



Well, it's not so wacky really. Aren't they all descendants, or in Jon's case, theorised descendants of the Targaryens?

Yes, Millaine, I have read a little of the Unsullied, in that Dany is attempting to recruit some, but I'm not up to very far in the book - she's still on the ship bound for pentos.

Not Tyrion (unless that other wacky theory is true, that Tyrion's mother was of House Targaryen ).

Well, there is some logic to it - all of these three "killed" their mothers when they were born (if Jon was the son of Lyanna), and as the saying goes "only blod can pay for life".

However, what I don't like with this theory is that it almost always also includes 1) Jon leaving the Night's Watch (which he has tried to escape from once: would be kind of pointless if he then just runs away again. Like the oath says: "...and for all nights to come.") and 2) these three sweeping away all the Others and afterwards Jon marries Dany for then to live happily ever after. Which is perhaps a very sweet ending, but (IMO) far too much cliché for Martin's style.

On Ned: Every character should have some kind of flaw. In Ned's case it's probably that he's too honorable (which makes him a lousy player). But he's still only human. And he probably loved this woman (whoever she was). That he for once did something to dishonor himself and that he still regrets it, would perhaps make him a bit more layered.

[BeardofPants]

Are you sure about Tyrion not having Targaryen stock? cos I seem to remember reading that Jaime had or something.

[BeardofPants]

Oh, another question: What exactly ARE the seven kingdoms of Westeros?

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Oh, another question: What exactly ARE the seven kingdoms of Westeros?

What are the Seven Kingdoms?

At the Event Horizon chat on March 18, 1999, GRRM gave the following answer:

The Seven Kingdoms usage of course dates from the time of Aegon the Conqueror. At that time, there was the King in the North (1), the King of Mountain and Vale (2), the King of the Rock (3), the King of the Reach (4), the Storm King (5), the King of the Iron Islands, who also ruled the riverlands (6), and the kingdom of Dorne, which was ruled by a prince (7).

Check out this site, it is approved by Martin.
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/

[Falagar]

Well, they were seven kingdoms until Aegon the Conqurer conqured it all (300 or so years before A Game of Thrones takes place): Dorne (led by the Martells and the descendants of that amazon-queen), the Vale of Arryn (Arryn), the River lands (conqured by Harren the Black when Aegon came and burned him down), the Stormlands (not sure but I think the Baratheons ruled there then as well), Stark-lands (Richard "kneeler" Stark bent his frozen knees to Aegon when he happend to sail by), the Reach was a kingdom (can't remember who ruled it though before Aegon though) and of course the Lannisters had a kingdom.

Those I think are the kingdoms in question.

Edit: Bah, too late.

[Arcala]

Do you think that's where the bastard names come from? (Storm, Rivers, Stone, Snow, Sand, can't remember the last one.) 'Cause they do kinda match the kingdoms' names.

[Falagar]

I think the Iron Island has Pyke, and the Targaryens used Blackfyre (or similar)...I think they've just taken them from the surroundings.

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by Arcala
Do you think that's where the bastard names come from? (Storm, Rivers, Stone, Snow, Sand, can't remember the last one.) 'Cause they do kinda match the kingdoms' names.

What is the bastard name for each region?

Waters for King's Landing and Dragonstone, Snow for the North, Pyke for the Iron Islands, Rivers for the Riverlands, Stone for the Vale, Hill for the Westerlands, Flowers for the Reach, Storm for the Stormlands and Sand for Dorne. Some believe that the bastard name for Targaryen bastards is Blackfyre, however it seems likelier that Blackfyre instead was a name which Aegon IV's bastard son Daemon was allowed to take. This is supported by the fact that Daemon Blackfyre's half-brother's name is Brynden Rivers, not Brynden Blackfyre.

[BeardofPants]

Thanks Falagar and Melko (you're both not very eeeevil, you know). Where did you read this? Is it mentioned in the books at all?

Oh, and my new sig is inspired by a certain individual.

[Falagar]

It's around. Try the Citadel at www.westeros.com, as Melko mentioned (most is taken from "So Spake Martin" and the books).

Nice sig! And I've already read Dune you know..

[Millane]

Originally posted by Falagar
I'm not sure about that. It may very well be that Rhaegar and Lyanna are the parents, but after having seen all the evidence around it seems a bit too obvious...Actually, I think he may actually be the bastard-son of Ned.

But it isnt that obvious, he has tactfully woven all these little parts into the story that would so neatly be explained by Jons real parentage, if its not Rhaegar then he will have to come into the story in some other way because i demand satisfaction... raped Lyanna my arse

On Ned: Every character should have some kind of flaw. In Ned's case it's probably that he's too honorable (which makes him a lousy player). But he's still only human. And he probably loved this woman (whoever she was). That he for once did something to dishonor himself and that he still regrets it, would perhaps make him a bit more layered.

yes and personally i would say that Ned forsaking his honor for the love of his family makes him more layered than him having a bastard, while i like your idea that having his honor tainted by Jon Snow i much prefer that what everyone in westeros believes was Neds biggest disposal of honor was actually his greatest display of honor...
Im not sure about this business of Jon, Tyrion and Dany riding the dragons and if it happens it must be well on into the next books when they are fully grown (the dragons of course, poor tyrion will never grow... aha such wit )
Any other more substantial theories about whats going to happen with Tyrion, he only partially got his revenge i thought...
just thinking about him makes me angry "my giant of lannister" and

the treacherous Shae whore

[Arcala]

Wow, I think you answered your own question there, Melko!

Oh, and BoP, I haven't read Dune 'cause my STUPID LIBRARY doesn't have the first book. Either that or I haven't found it. Nice sig, though.

Does anyone ever wonder what would have happened had the whole "Tysha-as-whore" incident not happened? I mean, if Tywin and Jaime hadn't done what they did.

[Vilya]

I love the Lyanna/ Rhaegar theory. Perhaps, the Night's Watch will change in light of current events in the last book? That could explain Jon's role changing?

[BeardofPants]

Okay, I'm up to the bit where Pietyr helps Sansa escape from Kings Landing. Why do I have a feeling that he whispered to Joff to kill Bran? What's he up to? It seems to me that he's trying to worm his way into a kingship or something.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Falagar
For example, one of the most frequent I've seen is that Tyrion, Dany and Jon will be the riders of the three dragons...

Hmm, having thought about this, wouldn't it likely be Bran, Tyrion, and Dany? Tyrion used to dream about dragons when he was little, and Bran has those 'flying' visions... Hmmm...

Oh yes, I have finally finished the books. Didn't expect that C. would be 'resurrected' like that. I wonder what that dealie is all about.

[Menelvagor]

Has anyone else noticed that the geography of Westeros mimics Britain? There's even a Hadrian's Wall up there...

Just a thought.

[BelegS]

George R. R. Martin is the best Sci-fi/Fantasy I have read, IMO, ever. Certainly better then Tolkien for me.

For other George Martin fans, I'd recommend his collection of Science-fiction stories,

Tuf Voyaging which centres on a peculiar character called Tuf and his horror novel, Fevre Dream which concerns a voyage on Mississippi and some Vampirism.

Great tales.

I don't think that Bran, or Jon or any other Stark for that matter would get to ride the Dragons. I don't think Bran would ever meet up with Dany.
One of my biggest wishes it to see Jon encountering Dany specially if the Rhaegar/Lyanna theory is correct.