Happy Martin Luther King Day

[jerseydevil]

Today is Martin Luther King Day - so I thought people could post their thoughts here.

Although we may not be perfect. I think the US has come a long way since Martin Luther King. Is there any possible way of overcoming racism completely though - from BOTH sides? We really don't need people like Sharpton and Farakahn who are repeatedly racist and we don't need the the KKK and White Supremicists and others to try and cause problems. But if we ignore the extremes - are most people color-blind in todays society?

I think we are mostly a color-blind society. I do not think it is as bad as it once was. Is there more to do? Of course there is. But nothing will get better if people continue with the divisive and and us versus them attitude.

[EDIT]I find it ironic that there seems to be this attitude that we should be interpective and all this on Marin Luther King Day - when Washington's Birthday is only represented by store sales and discounts. Same with 4th of July which all anyone thinks about is fireworks and picnics. It would be nice if people thought about the meaning behind those holidays too. Without the 4th of July and Washington - there would be no United States of America.

We also don't even celebrate Washington's Birthday anymore - it's just lumped into stupid President's Day - which I will never call it. The holiday will always be Washington's Birthday for the reason I stated above and should never have been changed.

[Ruinel]

I don't think it's a matter of not seeing the color of someone's skin, but rather knowing that what's beneath it is the same as what's beneath your own skin. Everyone loves, hates, cries, laughs, learns, works, etc. No one group because of the color of their skin has a monopoly on anything connected to being human. And that's what we all are, human. The amount of melanin in our skin does not make for differences in who we are.

A reflection on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Of course I didn't know who he was when he was alive, but I'm sure everyone has studied or learned about him in some respect. He was an advocate of equal rights in a turbulent time when there were still places that segregated whites and blacks (or African-American, which ever you prefer). When I say segregation, I mean on public buses, bathrooms, water fountains, not just schools.

He was born to a Baptist minister and his wife on Jan 15, 1929. He attended Morehouse College in Atlanta, GA and then went on to "Crozer Theological Seminary in Chester, Pa., winning the Plafker Award as the outstanding student of the graduating class, and the J. Lewis Crozer Fellowship as well. King completed the coursework for his doctorate in 1953, and was granted the degree two years later upon completion of his dissertation" (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/mlk...biography.html).

After he finished his doctorate, he became a minister of a church in Montgomery, Alabama. There he successfully mobilized the black community to boycot the bus lines for over a year.

The nonviolent tactics that he and his protestors used worked in their favor when, during a protest in Burmingham, Alabama over the segregation at a department store's facilities, the protesters were brutalized by police. It brought the plight of blacks in America into a new light and won sympathy all over the nation.

He was a Nobel Prize winner in 1964.

Martin Luther King started his movement in 1957 and continued it until his tragic assassinated in 1968.

There is a lot more on his life and the work that he did but I'll let you all read that yourselves. There's plenty online about him.

[Ruinel]

Oh, I forgot something. I wanted to respond to your comment, JD.

I believe that the request to reflect rather than just have the day off from work today is good.

I think people really don't reflect on George Washington so much because people don't really know much about him other than he chopped his father's cherry tree down and couldn't tell a lie when his father asked about it, he was the first president of the USA, he was a war hero, and he wore wooden teeth. No one really reflects on George Washington or what he fought for because he is far removed from us today.

The 4th of July, or Independence Day, is a celebration of America's Independence. We know people died as a price, and when the Star Spangled Banner is played before the fireworks, we are all somber and sing together in pride. The reflection of those that died for our freedom is on Memorial Day in May.

However, we can perhaps connect more with Dr. Martin Luther King and his movement. We can look up black and white photos of the protests and listen to recordings of his speaches. My mom said that she and her fellow classmates staged a march at her school in support and they weren't even Americans. And I still hear about discrimination still going on and it's the year 2004!!!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I don't think it's a matter of not seeing the color of someone's skin, but rather knowing that what's beneath it is the same as what's beneath your own skin. Everyone loves, hates, cries, laughs, learns, works, etc. No one group because of the color of their skin has a monopoly on anything connected to being human. And that's what we all are, human. The amount of melanin in our skin does not make for differences in who we are.

Color-blind means that when you see a person - you judge them for themselves and not because of their skin.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Color-blind means that when you see a person - you judge them for themselves and not because of their skin.

I'm just saying that I don't think its possible to not see that someone is darker or lighter than you. But I agree with you on judging them for themselves and not how much melanin is in their skin.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I'm just saying that I don't think its possible to not see that someone is darker or lighter than you.

It's not possible - but it's the fact that you don't care what color they are. You don't prejudge a person because of their skin color. That's all "color-blind" means.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I think people really don't reflect on George Washington so much because people don't really know much about him other than he chopped his father's cherry tree down and couldn't tell a lie when his father asked about it, he was the first president of the USA, he was a war hero, and he wore wooden teeth. No one really reflects on George Washington or what he fought for because he is far removed from us today.

Actually - all those things you said about George Washington are erroneous. They're just legends. He didn't have wooden teeth. It's sort of sad that everything you said about him isn't true.

The 4th of July, or Independence Day, is a celebration of America's Independence. We know people died as a price, and when the Star Spangled Banner is played before the fireworks, we are all somber and sing together in pride. The reflection of those that died for our freedom is on Memorial Day in May.

That also isn't what we our celebrating on 4th of July. 4th of July actually has nothing to do with the war. It has to do with the signing of the Declaration of Independence and us declaring our independence from England to the world.

However, we can perhaps connect more with Dr. Martin Luther King and his movement. We can look up black and white photos of the protests and listen to recordings of his speaches. My mom said that she and her fellow classmates staged a march at her school in support and they weren't even Americans. And I still hear about discrimination still going on and it's the year 2004!!!

I can go to Independence Hall in Philadelphia or the new Constitution Museum. we also - as Americans live the Declaration of Independence every day. You can read it - although I doubt many people do. From what I have seen on this board - very few Americans even know the Constitution.

I think Martin Luther King Day is treated the way it is - is because people expect it. Like last year what I posted about Toms River school. They were having work done and the school started late so they had to make up days. They had to come to school during Martin Luther King Day AND Washington's Birthday, as well as a couple of other days. The only day that got complained about - was Martin Luther King Day. People were yelling racism and it had nothing to do with it. it had to do with the fact that under NJ state law - the students have to go to school a certain number of days and they had to make up the days. Instead of them making them up all at once in the summer - they cut some holidays.

If students were going to school during 4th of July and that happened - people would only complain because it interfered with their picnics. Like I said - no one complained about having to go to school on the celebration of Washington's Birthday.

[HOBBIT]

In NJ we now get off for Martin Luther Kings day (have for the past several years)

It has replaced Columbus Day - well for getting out of school anyway.

I guess it was determined that there were many Native Americans already here and the Vikings and others had other been here - plus he apparently was a rotten guy, its not PC to celebrate that holiday

A school day off is a school day off. Just my two cents on Martin Luther King day

[Lizra]

Yeah, Happy day the kids are home!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Actually - all those things you said about George Washington are erroneous. They're just legends. He didn't have wooden teeth. It's sort of sad that everything you said about him isn't true.

That's why I said them. I read the stuff in the book you suggested about the making of the constitution. Which was, for the most part, pretty good, except that bit of boring part I told you about. But then I told you already, I'm not a history person. This was really good for me.

That also isn't what we our celebrating on 4th of July. 4th of July actually has nothing to do with the war. It has to do with the signing of the Declaration of Independence and us declaring our independence from England to the world.

But people died for our freedom. That's what I'm saying. It's not a solomn occasion, it's a celebration of our "independence", hence the name for the day... "Independence Day" . (I hate it when people don't understand what I'm f#%king saying. )

I can go to Independence Hall in Philadelphia or the new Constitution Museum. we also - as Americans live the Declaration of Independence every day. You can read it - although I doubt many people do. From what I have seen on this board - very few Americans even know the Constitution.

Probably not everything by memory, no. I don't even really know it all, but I had to study it in college, and I think everyone does. Most people don't know that the 5th Amendment is not really about not having to testify against yourself in a court of law. Actually, this is the 5th Amendment to the constitution...

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

As you can see... it's more than just not having to witness against yourself in a court of law. There's a lot of "Rights of Persons" that are in that Amendment.

Another famous Amendment, the 19th Amendment, is more than giving women the right to vote...

Section 1. The right of the citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

It gives Congress the power over States to enforce this law if necessary. It gives it teeth.

I think Martin Luther King Day is treated the way it is - is because people expect it. Like last year what I posted about Toms River school. They were having work done and the school started late so they had to make up days. They had to come to school during Martin Luther King Day AND Washington's Birthday, as well as a couple of other days. The only day that got complained about - was Martin Luther King Day. People were yelling racism and it had nothing to do with it. it had to do with the fact that under NJ state law - the students have to go to school a certain number of days and they had to make up the days. Instead of them making them up all at once in the summer - they cut some holidays.

Then that is wrong, that they screamed racism. You know, when people scream racism for things that aren't racism at all, it takes away from the real situations in which it exists. Just like in the rare situations when a woman cries rape, it ruins it for the legitimate cases because then people doubt her word.

If students were going to school during 4th of July and that happened - people would only complain because it interfered with their picnics. Like I said - no one complained about having to go to school on the celebration of Washington's Birthday.

I don't know about that. I don't think so. I think people would be upset that the day wasn't given them to celebrate, but not necessarily that it interfered with their picnics.

What is your complaint right now. I'm wondering what

[Insidious Rex]

I think its pretty cool to witness a new holiday maturing and coming into its own. I can actually remember when it wasn’t a holiday (remember Stevie Wonder’s song “Happy Birthday”?) and when it finally became one (what president was that under?) there were some prominent people who announced outright they wouldn’t acknowledge the day as a holiday because they didn’t like what King stood for. Crazy.

I really like the idea of the day being a day “on” and not a day off. A time to live in the image of King and give back to the community and those in need instead of just kickin back and watching TV all day or going shopping for goodies like so many other holidays. Its true what you sat that that’s all the presidents birthdays have become now. Probably because they are so removed like someone else already said while MLK was a living part of a current generation.

It's not possible - but it's the fact that you don't care what color they are. You don't prejudge a person because of their skin color. That's all "color-blind" means.

its hard to get past the subconscious biases we have though. VERY VERY hard. We can be the most progressive person in the world and still have some deep seated perceptions about race simply because of our culture that do a disservice. Im not saying oh everyone is racist. Not at all. But simply that psychology is a powerful thing. I know its true for ME and IM black. Go figure. Its really hard to escape because it works at such a deeper level then logic or intellect. But the most important thing to do is overtly condition ourselves to as you say be as “color blind” as we can thus minimizing our internal biases.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
I think its pretty cool to witness a new holiday maturing and coming into its own. I can actually remember when it wasn’t a holiday (remember Stevie Wonder’s song “Happy Birthday”?) and when it finally became one (what president was that under?) there were some prominent people who announced outright they wouldn’t acknowledge the day as a holiday because they didn’t like what King stood for. Crazy.

I don't know the song. I'm glad that it became a holiday, because he was an important person in US history. He accomplished so much, and what strikes me with utter humility is that he did this with voice and non-violent tactics, rather than with fist and furry. He deserved that Nobel prize.

Why would anyone not honor this holiday? What was it that he stood for that was so offensive?

I really like the idea of the day being a day “on” and not a day off. A time to live in the image of King and give back to the community and those in need instead of just kickin back and watching TV all day or going shopping for goodies like so many other holidays. Its true what you said that that’s all the presidents birthdays have become now. Probably because they are so removed like someone else already said while MLK was a living part of a current generation.

Yeah, actually, he did a lot for the poor as well.

I didn't say it as an insult to anyone (about G. Washington's b-day). I hope everyone takes it as just an explanation, or a reason.

its hard to get past the subconscious biases we have though. VERY VERY hard. We can be the most progressive person in the world and still have some deep seated perceptions about race simply because of our culture that do a disservice. Im not saying oh everyone is racist. Not at all. But simply that psychology is a powerful thing. I know its true for ME and IM black. Go figure. Its really hard to escape because it works at such a deeper level then logic or intellect. But the most important thing to do is overtly condition ourselves to as you say be as “color blind” as we can thus minimizing our internal biases.

I understand. I actually vividly remember a woman in a clothing store having a conversation at a clothing rack one over from me... I moved away because she was so loud about the conversation and I was embarrassed to be overhearing it. Apparently Child Protective Services was taking her kids from her and the woman that was the caseworker was a white woman. Like I said, I was really embarrassed to be hearing this conversation, though it was really hard not to hear it in the store, she was rather loud. I kept moving away, even though it was a small store, but could still hear it. Anyway, I left the store after she exclaimed how she hated all white people, then looked right at me and said, "and I hate you too." What the hell was I supposed to say to this? I just walked away and left the store. I felt bad that she was having problems with her kids, but that had nothing to do with me. But she was angry, and she didn't know me, and she didn't know better. *shrug* So, I left it at that.

[HOBBIT]

im sorry, but the best thing teens like about mkl day (including me) is that we get off from school for it.

[Insidious Rex]

Why would anyone not honor this holiday? What was it that he stood for that was so offensive?

Well at the time there were people who felt this was being forced down their throats for PC reasons and that King was nobody special or that he was a communist and a slime ball and all this. I can remember in like 87 when the governor of Arizona rescinded the King holiday in the entire state on the grounds that the former governor didn’t have the right to declare it or something. Needless to say they caught a lot of crap for that. The NFL took the super bowl away from them in 93 because of that.

I understand. I actually vividly remember a woman in a clothing store having a conversation at a clothing rack one over from me... I moved away because she was so loud about the conversation and I was embarrassed to be overhearing it. Apparently Child Protective Services was taking her kids from her and the woman that was the caseworker was a white woman. Like I said, I was really embarrassed to be hearing this conversation, though it was really hard not to hear it in the store, she was rather loud. I kept moving away, even though it was a small store, but could still hear it. Anyway, I left the store after she exclaimed how she hated all white people, then looked right at me and said, "and I hate you too." What the hell was I supposed to say to this? I just walked away and left the store. I felt bad that she was having problems with her kids, but that had nothing to do with me. But she was angry, and she didn't know me, and she didn't know better. *shrug* So, I left it at that.

that’s when you remind yourself that racism can come from any source in any direction. And you shrug and say well its unfortunate that she has had such a horrible time with her kids but she shouldn’t be projecting things on me just because of the color of my skin. That kind of racism can work both ways and either way its wrong.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Well at the time there were people who felt this was being forced down their throats for PC reasons and that King was nobody special or that he was a communist and a slime ball and all this. I can remember in like 87 when the governor of Arizona rescinded the King holiday in the entire state on the grounds that the former governor didn’t have the right to declare it or something. Needless to say they caught a lot of crap for that. The NFL took the super bowl away from them in 93 because of that.

I think I recall now about the communism accusation.

That's good that the NFL took the superbowl someplace else.

that’s when you remind yourself that racism can come from any source in any direction. And you shrug and say well its unfortunate that she has had such a horrible time with her kids but she shouldn’t be projecting things on me just because of the color of my skin. That kind of racism can work both ways and either way its wrong.

That's pretty much what I did. I didn't say anything to her or make a fuss. I just went someplace else. It hasn't made me hate blacks or anything. And why should I? I consider her just who she was, someone very angry who doesn't know any better.

I have friends of all colors, it doesn't matter, that woman never gave me the idea that everyone who was black was like her, racist.

[Khamûl]

If anyone gets the chance to visit the Center for Nonviolent Change and MLK museum in Atlanta, it's an excellent place to visit. It's next to a church he preached at and is also in close proximity to his tomb. It's awesome.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Khamûl
If anyone gets the chance to visit the Center for Nonviolent Change and MLK museum in Atlanta, it's an excellent place to visit. It's next to a church he preached at and is also in close proximity to his tomb. It's awesome.

I'd like to see it.

Does the Center for Nonviolent Change also address things in other countries? Or only in the US? Just curious.

[Khamûl]

I don't think it does. I'm pretty sure I remember it being just American Civil Rights. On second thought, I think there might be a small section devoted to Gandhi since he was one of Martin Luther King's biggest influences. There might be other small sections about his other major influences, but the only one I remember was Gandhi.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Khamûl
I don't think it does. I'm pretty sure I remember it being just American Civil Rights. On second thought, I think there might be a small section devoted to Gandhi since he was one of Martin Luther King's biggest influences. There might be other small sections about his other major influences, but the only one I remember was Gandhi.

That's cool. I think Gandhi was a great person.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
That's cool. I think Gandhi was a great person.

You mean you don't think he worked at a gas station in St Louis like Hilary Clinton said?

[EDIT:] Jonathan - this was my 6660th post.