Glad to be born in a "[I]western[/I] " country - Page 3

jerseydevil · 02-02-2003, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Huan
Jerseydevil, re: the welfare stuff: I guess our respective party sympathies are showing .

Well I'm morte Libertarian - I think that government should be smaller.

Quote:

I'm a little confused about the link you're making between the awful awful drek that passes for prime-time tv these days and the nation's litigiousness and insurance crisis.

It's all related - people expect things for nothing anymore. Look at Joe Millionaire - I refuse to watch it - but FOX has this guy who make $19,000 a year pretending to be a multi-millionaire living in a castle - then they have all these woman trying to win his love. Why do they want him? Because he has money. The concept of the show is completely disgusting - and is the same attitude that has developed into the "professional litigator". If you get into a car accident and sue everyone from the driver to the manufacturer of the seat cover - hey you might get lucky - hit it big and not have to worry about anything. Well you'll have to worry about all those "friends" you never knew you had all of a suddenm coming around

Quote:

And as for my mom, yeah, she does need to cut her expenses, as do I, but this is a hard thing to jump into when you're accustomed to another lifestyle. But again, I know millions of people around the world would kill to have problems like having to buy less beer every week.

It takes some juggling - I know this personally. It's much easier to live poorly and to have never had money - than to have money and then try living poorly. I know this from personal experience too.

Coney · 02-02-2003, 07:21 AM

Quote:

there are certain things that recipients MUST do. They MUST actively look for a job or go to school.

Yep it is the same in the UK......if your fit and healthy but unemployed you get reasonable (as I posted earlier) welfare but you must be actively seeking employment, no one gets to rest of the laurels and sponge off the government for life

When you do find employment you recieve £1000 and any help you were recieving for rent/mortgage etc continues for 10 weeks

.... sort of a nice way to help a person get started (and very handy if you need to wait until the end of the month to get your first paycheck).........if you are a working single parent then the government also pays towards childcare.

All this "let's sue the arse offa so-an-so" sounds very dicey

...and I can see how both directly affects insurance and standard of living.......we aren't quite that bad in the UK, yet, but it's only a matter of time.

markedel · 02-02-2003, 10:32 AM

And such workfare programs are not always well-run. Watch Bowling for Columbine it's practically your civic duty to watch a little Michael Moore once in a while

And the end of it is priceless.

BeardofPants · 02-02-2003, 02:26 PM

Very good movie. There's also a whole movie based on poverty in Flint called Roger and Me -- his first movie.

Huan · 02-02-2003, 05:13 PM

There was no way Bowling For Columbine was coming to a theater within 1000 miles of my town, but it's so on my list the second it comes out for rental. Jerseydevil, I definitely get what you meant. I hadn't made that connection before. The saddest thing about the litigious society to me is that Americans become so profit-minded that many genuinely, innocently believe lawsuits to be a form of justice. Suing over murders or something that happened on Sept. 11, I don't remember what they found to sue over on that one, but I remember some victims' families suing somebody over something. People are now able to place a dollar-amount on the life of a loved one, and they don't even realize they're being crass. (Yes, I realize some of them really are that crass.)

Cirdan · 02-02-2003, 05:25 PM

Litigation is a form of justice. That some abuse it doesn't make it unneccessary. Civil suits and class action suits are the only ways to correct some forms of injustice. As far as malpractice, I read, (true or otherwise) that the majority of the suits are against a very small minority of practitioners. At the same time all insurees must bear the brunt on higher premiums since there is no penalty payments for the most litigated insurees.

Closer to topic:

I've only been outside the US once (Canada excluded) and that was in Russia c. 1996. I was not a pretty picture. The worst of west and east in one. It was nice to get home to elevators and washing machines, but I could help think how soft we are in comparison, as far as the difficulty of daily life.

Yapaluna · 02-02-2003, 05:49 PM

There are some things that really make me angry. Since the so called "Communist block" has disappeared, capitalism seems to be totally out of control.

The state is retiring from all its duties. I do not want to have a real wellfare state but if it is going to regulate nothing at all, then why keep a state or a government or something like that?

You have to be flexible, raise children, build a house, work for at least 12 hours a day, never get sick, be engaged in some honorary duties, post at entmoot, pay for this, pay for that, always be friendly, have no stress, make a tax-declaration, read the papers AAAAAHHHHHHHH.

How about creating a smilies that looks like going nuts?

Radagast The Brown · 02-03-2003, 04:36 PM

Do you see Israel as a 'western' country? (be nice, even if you don't)

jerseydevil · 02-03-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
Do you see Israel as a 'western' country? (be nice, even if you don't)

I would consider Israel a western country. It's just stuck in that part of the middle of the Arab world.

Wayfarer · 02-03-2003, 05:02 PM

Since jewish immigrants from western countrys make up the majority in israel, I would say that yeah it's a western country.

Cirdan · 02-03-2003, 05:22 PM

except many were from Russia, Turkey, etc. Geographically and historically the area is eastern, but socio-politically it is western-ized.

Evenstar1400 · 02-03-2003, 06:26 PM

ya know if ya think about it the west could be anywhere. if you look west from:

Europe-see north america
North america-see asia
Asia-see europe
ect.

Cirdan · 02-03-2003, 07:00 PM

There is a subtle difference between west and The West. The old demarcations are along the lines of the Roman Empires with respect to Europe. Later it was between Christendom and The Oriental and Muslim world, then later Democracy and Communism. Sometimes all three aspects are present, such as the transition from Roman Catholic/Protestant, Democratic, capitalist Hungary to Orthodox, former Turkish subject, former communist state Romania. The difference is social, religious, political, and economic.

02-02-2003, 10:32 AM	#43
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	And such workfare programs are not always well-run. Watch Bowling for Columbine it's practically your civic duty to watch a little Michael Moore once in a while And the end of it is priceless. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-02-2003, 02:26 PM	#44
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Very good movie. There's also a whole movie based on poverty in Flint called Roger and Me -- his first movie. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

02-02-2003, 05:25 PM	#46
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Litigation is a form of justice. That some abuse it doesn't make it unneccessary. Civil suits and class action suits are the only ways to correct some forms of injustice. As far as malpractice, I read, (true or otherwise) that the majority of the suits are against a very small minority of practitioners. At the same time all insurees must bear the brunt on higher premiums since there is no penalty payments for the most litigated insurees. Closer to topic: I've only been outside the US once (Canada excluded) and that was in Russia c. 1996. I was not a pretty picture. The worst of west and east in one. It was nice to get home to elevators and washing machines, but I could help think how soft we are in comparison, as far as the difficulty of daily life. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

02-03-2003, 04:36 PM	#48
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Do you see Israel as a 'western' country? (be nice, even if you don't) __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-03-2003, 05:02 PM	#50
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Since jewish immigrants from western countrys make up the majority in israel, I would say that yeah it's a western country. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

02-02-2003, 05:13 PM	#45
Huan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oxford, MS Posts: 274	There was no way Bowling For Columbine was coming to a theater within 1000 miles of my town, but it's so on my list the second it comes out for rental. Jerseydevil, I definitely get what you meant. I hadn't made that connection before. The saddest thing about the litigious society to me is that Americans become so profit-minded that many genuinely, innocently believe lawsuits to be a form of justice. Suing over murders or something that happened on Sept. 11, I don't remember what they found to sue over on that one, but I remember some victims' families suing somebody over something. People are now able to place a dollar-amount on the life of a loved one, and they don't even realize they're being crass. (Yes, I realize some of them really are that crass.)

02-02-2003, 05:49 PM	#47
Yapaluna Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Druxberge (about 500 inhabitants) near Magdeburg Posts: 73	There are some things that really make me angry. Since the so called "Communist block" has disappeared, capitalism seems to be totally out of control. The state is retiring from all its duties. I do not want to have a real wellfare state but if it is going to regulate nothing at all, then why keep a state or a government or something like that? You have to be flexible, raise children, build a house, work for at least 12 hours a day, never get sick, be engaged in some honorary duties, post at entmoot, pay for this, pay for that, always be friendly, have no stress, make a tax-declaration, read the papers AAAAAHHHHHHHH. How about creating a smilies that looks like going nuts?

02-03-2003, 05:22 PM	#51
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	except many were from Russia, Turkey, etc. Geographically and historically the area is eastern, but socio-politically it is western-ized. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

02-03-2003, 06:26 PM	#52
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	ya know if ya think about it the west could be anywhere. if you look west from: Europe-see north america North america-see asia Asia-see europe ect. __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

02-03-2003, 07:00 PM	#53
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	There is a subtle difference between west and The West. The old demarcations are along the lines of the Roman Empires with respect to Europe. Later it was between Christendom and The Oriental and Muslim world, then later Democracy and Communism. Sometimes all three aspects are present, such as the transition from Roman Catholic/Protestant, Democratic, capitalist Hungary to Orthodox, former Turkish subject, former communist state Romania. The difference is social, religious, political, and economic. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

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