What if you owned your own country...?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Tessar

One Nation, Under TESSAR!

This being a family friendly board, I won't be displaying the graphic I designed for that image, either.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

And yet, domestic terrorism in this country has been almost exclusively the province of the far (and Christian) Right.

Actually, the reverse is true. Between 1980 and 1989, left wing groups in the US have been responsible for over ten times as many domestic terrorist incidents as right wing groups. Between 1990 and 1998, that lead diminished by quite a lot, not because of an increase in right wing terrorism but because of a massive decrease in left wing terrorism. However, left wing groups still maintained the lead for committing more terrorist acts.

Here are the numbers of terrorist incidents between 1980 and 1989 by group classification:

Counterterrorism Threat Assessment and Warning Unit of the National Security Division:

ACTIVITY BY GROUP CLASSIFICATION
Left Wing
1980: 14
1981: 19
1982: 27
1983: 14
1984: 12
1985: 3
1986: 17
1987: 7
1988: 5
1989: 2
Total: 120

Right Wing
1980: 1
1981: 0
1982: 0
1983: 1
1984: 0
1985: 0
1986: 5
1987: 0
1988: 1
1989: 0
Total: 8

And between 1990 and 1998

Left Wing
1990: 5
1991: 4
1992: 3
1993: 0
1994: 0
1995: 0
1996: 0
1997: 0
1998: 3
Total: 15

Right Wing
1990: 1
1991: 1
1992: 0
1993: 2
1994: 0
1995: 1
1996: 3
1997: 0
1998: 1
Total: 9


If we're looking at terrorist "activity" rather than "incidents", we can see that although left wings had far more terrorist "activity" than right wing groups between between 1980 and 1989, between 1990 and 1998, right wing groups had about twice as much terrorist activity as left wing groups. Though fewer terrorist "incidents" still, which I expect means actually committed terrorist attacks as opposed to preparation or planning. Though I could be wrong, of course.

Here's my source for these Counterterrorism Threat Assessment and Warning Unit data:
http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pd...-1998Stats.pdf

Anyway, in June 2004, the FBI said that eco-terrorism is America's top domestic terrorism threat. And eco-terrorism is decidedly far left wing.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...errorism_x.htm

I expect that now, right wing terrorism has increased significantly in the US because of Islamist "activity" and "incidents" in the US. Though mercifully our government has done quite a good job protecting the homeland from terrorist attacks since 9/11.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tessar

He should drop the theocratic part and just stick to dictator, like I do ^_^.


One Nation, Under TESSAR!

Alas for how much disagreement we must have . . . it's the "dictator" part that I'm still debating for my country! I don't know whether I'd go monarchy, constitutional monarchy or democracy. The part I'm most sure of is the theocratic.

Though if my country did go monarchy, I know that I wouldn't want to be the monarch. Not any more than I'd want to be president . . . the responsibility for people with those kinds of jobs is enormous. Just watching the speed at which the hair of Presidents Bush and Clinton's went gray . . .

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

As far as education goes, in public schools, none of that anti-Christian "we don't want to offend non-Christians by having prayer, but Islamists can have whatever they want" nonsense. Preschool NOT mandatory, not supported by the government/wacky Hollywood actors. Catholic private schools teach basic Latin. Colleges have actually sane professors, etc. Homeschooling highly supported and recommended.

[HOBBIT]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc Brandybuck

As far as education goes, in public schools, none of that anti-Christian "we don't want to offend non-Christians by having prayer, but Islamists can have whatever they want" nonsense. Preschool NOT mandatory, not supported by the government/wacky Hollywood actors. Catholic private schools teach basic Latin. Colleges have actually sane professors, etc. Homeschooling highly supported and recommended.

I don't want to get into prayer in school, but what do you mean by Islamists having whatever they want? And I wasn't aware that our college professors weren't sane. :P

Wouldn't need a good public education system if you had a nation of homeschooling.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

I don't want to get into prayer in school, but what do you mean by Islamists having whatever they want? And I wasn't aware that our college professors weren't sane. :P

Wouldn't need a good public education system if you had a nation of homeschooling.

There has been certain events recently concerning schools and Islamists (or Muslims, whatever) which are not fit to discuss in this thread.
There are some pretty wacky professors out there!
So there would be an option if the parent(s)/gardian(s) worked all the time.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc Brandybuck

Islamists (or Muslims, whatever)

The two terms are not equivalent, just to let you know. Islamist refers to militants or jihadis, whereas "Muslim" includes the vast majority of Muslims who do not support the modern jihads.

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

Wouldn't need a good public education system if you had a nation of homeschooling.

He didn't say he wanted "a nation of homeschooling." He said it was both supported and recommended, though. And I'd do the same . Homeschooling is wonderful! Not every parent has the time, ability or will to do that though, so having a good public school is still necessary.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Tessar

1 - What would you make the legal drinking age? 13 with parental supervision (in public places), and 18 without.
2 - Driving age? 17, but you have to pass an intelligence test .
3 - Age of sexual consent? Not in MY country, you don't
4 - Voting age? This is a dictatorship. There will be no voting.
5 - At what age would someone become an adult (free from parental control)? When they're ready to MOVE OUT AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES. >.<

6 - What types of recreational drugs (if any) would be legal?
You're kidding, right? In my country?

NO DRUGS! NO DRUGS FOR YOU, -OR- YOUR FRIENDS! o(>.<)O

7 - Can people have guns? (if so - who and what kind?)
Only if they pay for them. I'm not buying you a gun! Crazy kids...

8 - What would be the name of your country?
The Great Country of Tessar! Also known as the GCT!

9 - Would you have the death penalty?
No, but if you ever do that again, I'll make you WISH you were dead, buster.

10 - What would be the speed limit?
ONE BEEEEEEEELLION DOLLERS!

... sorry. I mean 70 mph.

11 - What types of religions would be permitted or restricted?
When you leave home, you can decide. Till then, you're going to Church every Sunday with me.

Which of the following would be legal:
12 - Porn?
13 - Prostitution?
14 - Polygamy?
15 - Homosexuality?
16 - Stem cell resurch?
17 - Human Cloning?
18 - Cock Fighting?
19 - Slavery?
20 - Hunting?
21 - Fishing?
22 - Eating meat?
23 - Littering?
24 - Unisex bathrooms?
25 - Suicide?
26 - Gay marriage?
27 - Abortion?

NOT. ON. MY. WATCH.

28 - What types of sexual activity (if any) would be illegal?

... you just can't help yourself, can you? See the above answer. o(>.<)O

29 - Would your county be clothing optional or clothing mandatory?
Eh. Clothing optional till 11 a.m., by which point you're expected to be awake enough to dress.

30 - Would you have obscenity laws? If so - how would you define "obscene".
You are being extremely obscene with these questions. IMPERTINENT!
31 - What system would you set up for collecting taxes?
- Income tax? (how much?)
- Sales tax? (how much?)
- Import/Export tax? (how much?)

Hooba-jooba-wha? o.O
32 - What criteria would someone need to pass to become a citizen? Don't be a dumbo.
33 - What types of people would you allow (or not allow) into your country?
Lief can't come in, because he's a meanie head, and SaCaA can't come in, because she's a party pooper, and BoP can't come in because she steals our pants. I guess everyone else can come. Providing there are no wild parties going on past 11:30 p.m.
34 - What type of government would you establish?
This is not a government. This is a DICTATORSHIP.
35 - To what degree would your government be allowed to censor or restrict the media?
I demand control of the TV remote. That's censorship enough.

36 - Aside from laws - what sort of unofficial (and unenforced) cultural rules and traditions would you like to establish? For example - taking shoes off before entering someone's home. Or not eating with the left hand.


Don't be a jerk.




WELCOME TO THE GREAT COUNTRY OF TESSAR!

Haha!
You're such an awesome ruler Tessar! (Not very fair, though. Haha!)

Note to self: Read L.E. down at later date.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

The two terms are not equivalent, just to let you know. Islamist refers to militants or jihadis, whereas "Muslim" includes the vast majority of Muslims who do not support the modern jihads.

Okay. Thanks.

He didn't say he wanted "a nation of homeschooling." He said it was both supported and recommended, though. And I'd do the same . Homeschooling is wonderful! Not every parent has the time, ability or will to do that though, so having a good public school is still necessary.

Thanks again! Oh, and I'm a she.

[HOBBIT]

If there are examples of "Islamists" getting "whatever they want" in public schools in the United States, I don't see how that wouldn't be fit to discuss in this topic. If you feel that way, can you post it in a more fit topic? Maybe the Muslims one?

I'm curious to see what you mean.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Lief your data misses thousands of points. like these.
http://www.vawnet.org/DomesticViolen...apeRevised.pdf
right wing terrorism.

And of the groups and individuals cited in your USA today article, two examples were "eco-terrorists/animal liberationists". In one case, two teenagers and a twenty something set fires, and in another case 7 people were threatening and vandalizing people.

On the other side is But there were some potentially close calls, such as the scheme by William Krar, an east Texas man who stockpiled enough sodium cyanide to gas everyone in a building the size of a high school basketball gymnasium before he was arrested in 2002.

Shank, whose unit mainly searches for fugitives, including some wanted on domestic terror-related charges, led the manhunt for Clayton Lee Waagner, 48, of Kennerdell, Pa. Waagner was convicted in December of mailing hundreds of threat letters containing bogus anthrax to abortion clinics in 24 states. During his trial in Philadelphia, prosecutors documented Waagner's ties to the Army of God, an extremist group that believes violence against abortion providers is an acceptable way to end abortion.
Then there's the increase in hate groups Potok says the Southern Poverty Law Center identified 751 hate groups last year, a 6% increase over the 708 such organizations it counted in 2002.,the militia planning to attack the military base, the 3 anti-government extremists who actually shot down a Chips helicopter,and this guy.
According to an FBI affidavit in the Tennessee case, Crocker had inquired last spring about where he could obtain nuclear waste or nuclear materials. An informant told the FBI that Crocker, who had "absolute hatred" for the government, wanted "to build a bomb to be detonated at a government building, particularly a courthouse, either federal or state."

In September, according to the affidavit, Crocker told an undercover FBI agent "it would be a good thing if somebody could detonate some sort of weapon of mass destruction in Washington, D.C.," while both houses of Congress "were in session." Crocker allegedly told the agent he admired Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party. He said "establishing a concentration camp for Jewish insurance executives would be a desirable endeavor."

Crocker later bought what he thought was Sarin nerve gas and a block of C-4 explosive from the undercover agent, the affidavit says.

I'm not sure you read this article, Lief.

[Lief Erikson]

I'm not going to read through that entire source; would you please provide quotes from it that back your claim?

What I did read from it, skimming it, was not at all focused on religion and never once used the word "terrorism". The part which describes in brief the content of that article (at the end of the article) never refers to the religion, terrorism or the right wing. I did find one reference to religion where it said pastors should do a better job at helping women who have suffered abuse, and where it argues that some pastors have even hurt women further by blaming them when they were raped. But that, though horrible, is not terrorism.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I'm not going to read through that entire source; would you please provide quotes from it that back your claim?

Researchers estimate that between 10 and 14% of married women experience rape in marriage.(Finlehorand Yllo, 1985, Russell, 1990)

That's a whole lot more injuries than you can pin on tree-huggers, and you, with your resistance to divorce, are a lovely example of support for right-wing terrorism. In 30 states it's legal to rape your wife, if she's merely in a position where she can't consent. There's 'pro-marriage, pro-life' for ya.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

And of the groups and individuals cited in your USA today article, two examples were "eco-terrorists/animal liberationists". In one case, two teenagers and a twenty something set fires, and in another case 7 people were threatening and vandalizing people.

This does not invalidate in any way the FBI's claim that eco-terrorism is the US's #1 domestic terrorist threat.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

On the other side is But there were some potentially close calls, such as the scheme by William Krar, an east Texas man who stockpiled enough sodium cyanide to gas everyone in a building the size of a high school basketball gymnasium before he was arrested in 2002.

Shank, whose unit mainly searches for fugitives, including some wanted on domestic terror-related charges, led the manhunt for Clayton Lee Waagner, 48, of Kennerdell, Pa. Waagner was convicted in December of mailing hundreds of threat letters containing bogus anthrax to abortion clinics in 24 states. During his trial in Philadelphia, prosecutors documented Waagner's ties to the Army of God, an extremist group that believes violence against abortion providers is an acceptable way to end abortion.

Then there's the increase in hate groups Potok says the Southern Poverty Law Center identified 751 hate groups last year, a 6% increase over the 708 such organizations it counted in 2002.,the militia planning to attack the military base, the 3 anti-government extremists who actually shot down a Chips helicopter,and this guy.
According to an FBI affidavit in the Tennessee case, Crocker had inquired last spring about where he could obtain nuclear waste or nuclear materials. An informant told the FBI that Crocker, who had "absolute hatred" for the government, wanted "to build a bomb to be detonated at a government building, particularly a courthouse, either federal or state."

In September, according to the affidavit, Crocker told an undercover FBI agent "it would be a good thing if somebody could detonate some sort of weapon of mass destruction in Washington, D.C.," while both houses of Congress "were in session." Crocker allegedly told the agent he admired Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party. He said "establishing a concentration camp for Jewish insurance executives would be a desirable endeavor."

Crocker later bought what he thought was Sarin nerve gas and a block of C-4 explosive from the undercover agent, the affidavit says.

Neither does any of this invalidate a single point I made, or any of the data I earlier presented. Your argument is based entirely upon comparisons of individual examples. That says nothing about overall trends or about which is responsible for more terrorism, the left wing or the right wing. I tend to put more faith in the Counterterrorism Unit and the FBI than I do in your comparisons of incidents.

And note that the Counterterrorism Unit's report didn't even differentiate between "right wing" and "Christian Right." So any terrorist acts committed by right wing groups in general would be lumped in with those of groups sharing many similarities in ideology with the Christian Right, in that report's calculations. So the Christian Right's responsibility is going to be smaller than that of the general "right wing" statistic, which is already smaller than that of the left wing.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Researchers estimate that between 10 and 14% of married women experience rape in marriage.(Finlehorand Yllo, 1985, Russell, 1990)

These acts that you have described are horrific and criminal, but they are not considered to be terrorist acts. Describing these sick acts, or my position on divorce, as terrorism requires a very loose definition of terrorism.

Furthermore, your data about the number of rapes within marriage that have occurred says nothing about who committed those rapes, so your attributing them to the Christian Right is groundless.


I'm going to stop arguing with you about this now.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I tend to put more faith in the Counterterrorism Unit and the FBI than I do in your comparisons of incidents.

It is indeed a matter of faith, Lief. And I'm already aware that you choose your data to support the conclusions you've already made, based on faith.

not considered a terrorist act

sure it is. Just not by you and your carefully chosen sources. It's a big world, Lief. There are a lot of places where violence against women and children is recognised as terrorism. And the data is quite clear who "committed those acts." Heterosexual married men, Lief. That's who.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

It is indeed a matter of faith, Lief. And I'm already aware that you choose your data to support the conclusions you've already made, based on faith.

sure it is. Just not by you and your carefully chosen sources. It's a big world, Lief. There are a lot of places where violence against women and children is recognised as terrorism. And the data is quite clear who "committed those acts." Heterosexual married men, Lief. That's who.

I agree. Terrorism, I believe, includes the root word "terror," from Old French terreur (terror, fear, dread) and thereby from Latin terrere (to frighten, terrify). So, logically speaking, anything that causes any form of terror can be considered terrorism.

Those amusement park owners are terrorists.

[Earniel]

1 - What would you make the legal drinking age?
18
2 - Driving age?
18, with a possibility to start learning at 16
3 - Age of sexual consent?
17
4 - Voting age?
18
5 - At what age would someone become an adult (free from parental control)?
18

6 - What types of recreational drugs (if any) would be legal?
None but the very lightest. You want to damage your brain so badly, you do it off my island, the world's big enough for it.

7 - Can people have guns? (if so - who and what kind?)
Yeah, but licenced.

8 - What would be the name of your country?
Isla Rana has a nice ring to it.

9 - Would you have the death penalty?
Nope.

10 - What would be the speed limit?
Depending on the type of road. I doubt I'll have freeways so maybe 100 km/h.

11 - What types of religions would be permitted or restricted?
All are permitted as long as they don't interfere with Isla Rana's laws, common sense and other people's freedom.

Which of the following would be legal:
12 - Porn? Don't see why, really.
13 - Prostitution? Seems good for morale, mostly. Regulated, of course.
14 - Polygamy? One aught to be enough.
15 - Homosexuality? I suppose.
16 - Stem cell research? Yes, but regulated.
17 - Human Cloning? Why on earth would you want to do that? Ain't there enough already? Regulated and only for medical reasons like transplant organs and tissue, never the complete thing.
18 - Cock Fighting? Not on my island, buster. This ain't the Middle Ages. There will be no cock fighting, no dog fighting, no bull fighting or anything similar. If I find out there is any, it will be you against the enraged animal and I will damn well root for the animal.
19 - Slavery? Nope, do your own work and learn to love it, or pay decent wages to get someone to do it for you.
20 - Hunting? Only for food and pest control.
21 - Fishing? Sustainable fishing, yes.
22 - Eating meat? Yeah, not sure why this would be an issue. But I plan to have decent food hygiene and animal cruelty regulations in place.
23 - Littering? Nope, learn to recycle. Isla Rana will have decent recycling and waste management.
24 - Unisex bathrooms? Wait, what?
25 - Suicide? Again, why would you want to do that?
26 - Gay marriage? Yes.
27 - Abortion? Yes, but up to a certain period in the pregancy and not later. And under medical supervision.

28 - What types of sexual activity (if any) would be illegal?
29 - Would your county be clothing optional or clothing mandatory?
30 - Would you have obscenity laws? If so - how would you define "obscene".
Why so bloody many questions about sex and indecency, I wonder.

31 - What system would you set up for collecting taxes?
- Income tax? Some, let's stay reasonable.
- Sales tax? Hm, only when I'm short on cash.
- Import/Export tax? Depends on how well trade's going to be.

32 - What criteria would someone need to pass to become a citizen? 33 - What types of people would you allow (or not allow) into your country?
Having a healthy dose of common sense should be a requirement. A good sense of humour wouldn't be amiss either. Environmental friendly ways is a definite plus.

34 - What type of government would you establish?
Enlighted dictatorship. I was here first, I am not going to give it away just like that.

35 - To what degree would your government be allowed to censor or restrict the media?
I'm still thinking about whether I will have a media in the first place...

36 - Aside from laws - what sort of unofficial (and unenforced) cultural rules and traditions would you like to establish? For example - taking shoes off before entering someone's home. Or not eating with the left hand.
Ecology and sustainable development will be a way of life. Oh, and I want a big research and breeding center for amphibians. Everybody will like ponds.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

1 - What would you make the legal drinking age?
16. The laws in the US about this are just plain silly.

2 - Driving age?
19, to give people plenty of time to learn to drink responsibly. Also stringent testing.

3 - Age of sexual consent?
16, probably.

4 - Voting age?
21, probably, maybe a bit later.

5 - At what age would someone become an adult (free from parental control)?
21.

6 - What types of recreational drugs (if any) would be legal?
- Pot
probably.

- Tobacco
yes.

- Cocaine
no.

- Alcohol
yes.

- LSD
no.

- Caffeine
yes.

- Heroin
no.

- Other?
maybe. :P Absinthe would probably be legal, but that could be considered as fitting under alcohol...

7 - Can people have guns? (if so - who and what kind?)
Yes, but there will be a good deal of paperwork. Handguns will be illegal. A person will have to be 21, or maybe even 25 to own a gun.

8 - What would be the name of your country?
Damned if I know.

9 - Would you have the death penalty?
No, but with a proviso making it possible in a case of true necessity for the protection of society, such as a serial killer whom there is good reason to believe cannot be contained. Such cases would be few, if any, though, so effectively, the answer is no.

10 - What would be the speed limit?
That would depend on the road, now wouldn't it? I would, however, have a law like that of California, which states that keeping pace with surrounding traffic takes precedence over the speed limit.

11 - What types of religions would be permitted or restricted?
Most religions would be permitted. Only those deemed to be dangerous to society or created for the purpose of antagonising other religions would be forbidden. Permitted religions would be treated as far as possible with deference and respect, but Catholicism would be the religion the state was based upon. The constitution would mandate that the country be run, on a whole, in accordance with teaching of the Holy See.

Which of the following would be legal:
12 - Porn?
Probably.

13 - Prostitution?
Probably, in order that the government could ensure that prostitutes were treated humanely, and in order that they could have regular check-ups for STDs. Probably a person would require a health certificate stating they had not STDs to use such facilities.

14 - Polygamy?
No.

15 - Homosexuality?
Yes, but there would be no same-sex civil unions. Authentic hate crimes against homosexuals would be taken very seriously.

16 - Stem cell resurch?
No.

17 - Human Cloning?
No.

18 - Cock Fighting?
No.

19 - Slavery?
Possibly there would be a very limited system in place, such as permitting a person to voluntarily sell himself into slavery for a predetermined period of time as a means of survival, if he or she is in dire straits. No one would be born a slave.

20 - Hunting?
Yes, with some limits.

21 - Fishing?
Yes, with some limits. For both hunting and fishing, there would have to be good reason to do so, such as A) using the prey as food or B) protection of one's self and one's property. Killing animals and leaving them would be illegal.

22 - Eating meat?
Yes.

23 - Littering?
No.

24 - Unisex bathrooms?
Hmmm...probably not.

25 - Suicide?
No.

26 - Gay marriage?
No.

27 - Abortion?
No.

28 - What types of sexual activity (if any) would be illegal?
Bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, sadomasochism, probably. And rape.

29 - Would your county be clothing optional or clothing mandatory?
Clothing optional in places, mandatory in the public arena.

30 - Would you have obscenity laws? If so - how would you define "obscene".
Yes. I would probably define obscene as "vulgar".

31 - What system would you set up for collecting taxes?
- Income tax? (how much?)
- Sales tax? (how much?)
- Import/Export tax? (how much?)
This would all depend on what was needed.

32 - What criteria would someone need to pass to become a citizen?
Fluency in the official language, resident for twelve years, passing tests about the history and demonstrating a decent knowldedge of the culture. Immigration policy would be very moderate.

33 - What types of people would you allow (or not allow) into your country?
That's a pretty vague question...

34 - What type of government would you establish?
Constitutional (not figurehead) monarchy.

35 - To what degree would your government be allowed to censor or restrict the media?
It would very limited and discouraged, aside from aforementioned obscenity laws.

36 - Aside from laws - what sort of unofficial (and unenforced) cultural rules and traditions would you like to establish? For example - taking shoes off before entering someone's home. Or not eating with the left hand.
Traditions are not something that can be "established".

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Most people seem to have either extremely libertarian states or extremely controlling states. Go me for choosing the middle way!

I'd be interested to see your ideal countries, Hec and Rian.