Tom Bombadil

[Michael Martinez]

Originally Posted by Ossë

Aule
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Just as Goldberry is very similar to Yavanna, Aule the Smith, shares many common characteristics with Tom and this identification helps explain some of the events that occur in Tom's house - especially his control over the ring without any fear or temptation. Aule was the maker of all the substances of the earth: minerals, gems, and metals....

This point undermines the Tom = Aule argument. Tom is not a maker, and he is not concerned with minerals and the earth. Some people have suggested that Glorfindel's comment at Rivendell, that Tom doesn't have the power to defy Sauron unless that power is in the very hills itself, implies a connection between Tom and the earth. But that is reading too much into Glorfindel's statement, which is ambiguous. It may only be a metaphorical comparison of Tom's relative power versus Sauron's. Since the remark is ambiguous, it cannot be used to prove anything.

But for Tom to be Aule, he must act like Aule. And that action would have to include doing things for which Aule was known.

Other interesting bits
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...The world was, after all, brought into existence by a group of singers, the Holy Ones, some of whom became Valar....

This is wrong. The Valar did not create the world. Iluvatar did, and he did not create it through song. He rather simply created it by fiat: he said Ea -- "Let it be!".

Tolkien speculated, late in his life, that the Valar had become almost immobilized with respect to their involvement in the world by the end of the Third Age. They had completed the majority of their work by that time, and they could not directly intervene any longer. Sending the Istari to inspire Men and Elves (and other Free Peoples) to resist Sauron was a great act on their part. So, Tom and Goldberry could hardly be Valar taking a sabbatical in Middle-earth.

Besides which, Tom stated specifically that he had always been in Middle-earth. The Valar left Middle-earth long before the Elves awoke.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

While looking around at the various threads I came across one that set my mind at work as to what Tom Bombadil is and what Goldberry the River-Daughter is. The post had the idea that Goldberry came from the river, a common idea among Tolkien scholars. Perhaps Goldberry and Tom were originally from the planet? This may be the most correct theory to date.
As Ñólendil said Tom claims to have come before the dark lord, “Eh, What?’ said Tom sitting up, and his eyes glinting in the gloom. ‘Don’t you know my name yet? That’s the only answer. Tell me, who are you alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that’s what I am. Mark my words my friends: tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the big people, and saw the little people arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless-before the dark lord came from the outside.� (Tolkien~The Lord of the Rings) Most of these claims can be made about the first age or close to before it the only lines that set it apart and makes it strange are the lines; Tom was here before the river and the tree’s/He knew the dark before the dark lord came from outside. After Reading the Ainulindalë of the Silmarillion I came across the coming of the Valar into Eä wherein it says “And in this work the chief part was taken by Manwë and Aulë and Ulmo; but Melkor too was there from the first, and he meddled in all that was done, turning it if he might into his own desires and purposes; and he kindled great fires.�(Tolkien~The Silmarillion) This states that Manwë, Aulë, Ulmo, and Malkor came into the world at the very beginning. If I am not mistaken it does not say that Melkor was exactly the very first into the world. [If I missed that quote please point it out.] Therefore if Melkor was present in the world along with the four greatest Valar then there must have been other things in that world unspoiled and un changed by Melkor and/or protected by the remaining Valar.
The next quote from The Sillmarillion that supports this claim presents the available space in Eä, “And there was strife between Melkor and the other Valar; and for that time Melkor withdrew and departed to other regions and did there what he would; but he did not put the desire of the Kingdom of Arda from his heart.�(Tolkien~The Sillmarillion) This quote shows that there was indeed a time and place away from somewhere else, and there was a time when Melkor fled there. (i.e. area A where the Valar are and Melkor flees to area B, where Tom Bombadil already is!) Hence Melkor is coming from the “outside�! A problem most have with the idea that individuals could come from somewhere other than the land of Eä is that they do not accept the understanding of the Valar at all times, meaning that the Valar are not bound by the lands and the airs and the seas. In “The shaping of Middle-Earth� Tolkien talks about an area called Ilmen, “The region above sky. Heaven/ the air than which it is thinner and more clear. Here only the stars and moon and sun can fly�(Tolkien Shaping of Middle-Earth) Perhaps it is in these areas that the Valar were in? Or any of the regions of the lands, airs, seas, or “outer� space.
All of this however does not explain what Tom Bombadil or Goldberry are, it simply provides for a possibility for the theory to be credible. With all of previous stated information one assumption (although in no way claiming to be the absolute correct answer) as to the riddle of Tom Bombadil is that he is the planet itself. This is not to say that Tom is a form created by another to protect the earth or do anything unparticular, just from the earth, part of the earth, with the earth. This may be an explanation of how he could be older than anything. Tom never claims he is older than all things in his current form. Perhaps it is that Tom saw the first acorn as the planet itself? Perhaps he became his own form over time and then was Tom Bombadil. Vis-Ã*-vis Golberry is Tom’s younger water formation. Born from the River Withywindle; the river daughter. This is just one side to one theory, the other being that instead of forming from the earth and the waters they were already and they simply were as Fangorn or any other creature in Middle-Earth as easterlinge was saying.[End Part I]

Here is what I think Tom Bombadil might be:
I once thought that he might have been Morgoth after he was overthrown. Afterall, the ring holds no power over him and he seems to have no mind.
Another thought is that he could be another of the Maia or even of the Valar. It takes great willpower to resist the ring, which he definantly has.
It could be neither, it could be both. I don't know.

[Manveru]

Originally Posted by Finnrodde

Here is what I think Tom Bombadil might be:
I once thought that he might have been Morgoth after he was overthrown. Afterall, the ring holds no power over him and he seems to have no mind.

Wow that theory has so many holes in it its unbelievable

[ethuiliel]

I don't know who Tom Bombadil is, but he is definetly not Morgoth. Tom Bombadil seems to be the only one who can truly resist evil, and Morgoth is the source of all evil. If Morgoth came back in any way, he would be scheming and manipulating, and being evil, even if he wasn't openly so. Tom, however, has no desire for power or any other form of evil.

[Elemmírë]

Gandalf the White... Saruman as he should have been...

Bombadil... Morgoth as he should have been...

Strange thoughts! Strange thoughts! Help!

And yet it remains that Morgoth was not entirely evil. He stretched his power throughout Middle Earth...

Maybe he's a physical manifestation of the Earth, or the power in the Earth...

Probably not.

Halbarad's idea is intriguing.

[Bombadillo]

I think Goldberry is even more inexplicable. Everyone speculates about Tom because there's always some information about him that makes us think "well if he can say that then, taking it a step further, maybe he's really..." Whereas we know nothing about Goldberry. What does Tom mean, "river-daughter"?

Anyway about Tom, I had a few theories but all were equally flawed. After wondering about him while reading Valaquenta, I think's it's possible that he was created by one of the Ainur, the one that sprang from the 'creator' portion of Iluvitar's mind. If that's not possible (I don't know what the Ainur were capable of), then maybe it was Aulë. He could have been some dwarf prototype whose uniqueness got him exluded from the life underground sentence, or some bastard lovechild with Yavanna if that's possible, which would explain his love of the earth more or less.

I doubt that I'm correct because there must be some discrepancies I don't know about, having never even finished the Silmarillion. Point any out that you want, but Halbarad, your post scares me with spoilers and so I didn't read it completely.

[Nurvingiel]

Morgoth as he should have been... interesting. I think it's a cool poetic analogy, but not explaining Tom's nature.

Didn't Tolkien himself say that Tom was an enigma? This suggests that even Tolkien didn't know who he was. I think Tom is a complete mystery with absolutely no explanation anywhere, and Tolkien created him to ensure his fans would always have something to talk about. (Just kidding about that last part.)

EDIT: And I don't think Tom is actually in the Sil, but he is definitely pre-Sil. (Before the seas were bent...)

[ItalianLegolas]

yeah, i agree with Nurv, if its true that Tolkien described Bombadil as an enigma, how are we supposed to know what he is?

[Lenya]

Yeah, we're not supposed to know who he is. His part of the mystery of the book. If everything was explained, the book wouldn't be so interesting any more.

[ItalianLegolas]

he's a Maiar, thats as close as we're going to get.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

he's a Maiar, thats as close as we're going to get.

No, I'm afriad we're not even that close.

[Lenya]

Yes. No one knows for sure. Nowhere did it stand that he is Maiar.

[dailey_r]

I am less interested in WHO Tom is and more concerned with WHY he was created. Maybe someone out there can help me answer a question about this strange character. Why does Tolkien develop this ancient, enigmatic, extremely powerful character and then just... do nothing? Tom simply disappears. I can see why the movies omit him. He seems perfectly poised to come in later in the tale, (let's say during the final battle) when all hope is lost, and save the day. But... nothing. Do the Hobbits even ever recollect him? Is there ever a , "Gee, thanks to good ol' Tom for saving our skins. Without Tom we never would've made it this far" or anything like that? Tolkien advises not to philosophise about Tom. But what was the point in the Hobbits ever having encountered him? Why introduce him at all?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i have worked it out completely, tom bombadil is tolkien

[squinteyedsoutherner]

Tom Bombadil was a originally a doll Tolkien used to tell his children bedtime stories. Tolkien would make up adventures for this character which often featured Tom being caught off guard for a moment by some circumstance only to have Tom find his wits and take control over the situation. Tolkien later wrote some these stories down in the “Adventures of Tom Bombadil�.

When writing Lord of the Rings this character was simply inserted into the text with no reworking at all except for the feather in his hat which was changed from peacock to swan. All of the Tom speculation stems from a belief that Tolkien reconciled this character in his own mind with the world of Middle-Earth. I don’t believe he did. Tom was created outside ME and appears in ME unchanged from his days when Tolkien used him for bedtime stories.

I think the mystery is no more complicated than the fact that this character had an important place in Tolkien's heart and that earned the character the unique status of being inserted unchanged into an otherwise highly consistant narrative.

[Nurvingiel]

Really! That's interesting Squinty (can I call you Squinty? ). Is that in Letters? I have got to get a copy of that...

Tom is essential to the plot though. Who but Tom (or Goldberry maybe) could have bailed out the Hobbits in the Old Forest? And if they hadn't gone into the Old Forest, they surely would have been caught by the Nazgul.

So if it weren't for a benevolent, mysterious and powerful being such as Tom Bombadil, the fate of Middle-earth would have been decided just outside the borders of the Shire.


I wonder though..... if Sauron had come to the Old Forest (had Tom accepted guardianship of the Ring, say) would Tom be strong enough to challenge him? I guess we'll never know.

Also, I wonder why Tom wasn't affected by the Ring? Tolkien didn't have to write that in, but no explanation as to why is given.

Slightly OT but... if any other Ringbearers such as Galadriel, Elrond, or Gandalf put on the Ring, would they be affected the way Frodo and Bilbo were? There has got to be a better thread for that question.

[squinteyedsoutherner]

The first time tolkien writes of Tom Bombadil is in a story called The Tale of Tom Bombadil which is set in the days of King Bonhedig; Tom Bombadil was the name of the oldest inhabitant of the kingdom. "Four foot high in his boots he was and three feet broad. He wore a tall hat with a blue feather, his jacket was blue, and his boots were yellow"

When Tolkien tells us Tom is fatherless etc. etc. Tolkien is just recounting attributes the character had before LOTR. The look of Tom and colour of the clothes/boots is just the doll right down to the feather in the hat. I don't think he was setting up some sort of puzzle or riddle that can be solved within ME. Tom doesn't fit, but he's a great character that Tolkien loved and wanted to use.

I don't know this as a fact but I suspect that Tom, over time, came to remind Tolkien of the early years with his children and so there was a nostalgic aspect for Tolkien as well. The doll belonged to Michael by the way.

Most of this info comes from Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien.

[strider8]

Originally Posted by Elvengirl

I read a theory about him somewhere, I think it was in another thread on Tom and I personally think it makes the most sense.
It basically explains Tom to be the spirit of the Earth.
Maybe I'll dig it up......nope can't find it. But many people have thier own thories about Tom. Tolkien obviously didn't explain him for his own reasons. As much as you try to figure him out, there is no absolute answer to the mystery behind Tom Bombadill.

That would make sense because i think i read it somewere that goldberry was either the spirit of water or the daughter of the stream,i'm not positive but i will check on thursday(its the next time i will get to go to the librarey).

[CrazySquirrel]

Hey, haven't you heard that Tom was in fact the Witchking? And Goldberry was his secret mistress? He set her in the Old wood and came to her on vacations. It is all in crackpot theories something. can't find the link, sorry