Is Osama Bin Laden alive?

[The Lady of Ithilien]

From what was said in the online news, it looks as though the voice may have matched, and since apparently he made reference to recent events, including the hostage-taking in Moscow and the attack in Bali, he's alive somewhere. The Israeli security people at DEBKAfile speculate that video wasn't shown because he may have disguised himself and didn't want to give that away.

He surfaced just in time, didn't he, to take the heat for any new terrorist action, rather than it coming back on Saddam Hussein. The timing can't be accidental. Wherever he is, it's with Saddam's assistance and protection, I'll bet.

President Bush was right: this war is going to be long and very difficult as we do the absolutely necessary work needed to uproot this twisted, dirty mess of undercover alliances and cells throughout the world once and for all.

[isthatbad!]

not only is he alive, but he is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and your children.

[Coney]

Originally posted by isthatbad!
not only is he alive, but he is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and your children.

So that's who's under my bed.........all this time I thought it was a hairy Elvis

[galadriel88]

I think he's still alive, hiding in some cave somewhere with food, water, his most trusted advisors and plenty of guards disguised as common shepherds and farmers.
As for him wanting to die as a martyr - I think it's complete rubbish. That and him being so totally devoted to Islam.... I sincerely believe that he is simply a power-hungry menace who uses religion as justification for his actions. He's putting on a show.
I think the audio is an imposter pretending to be him, making us consider the possibility of him being dead.
When he's found, he should of course be given a "fair trial", where whoever represents him just gets up there and makes no defense whatsoever. Nowhere in the laws of the judicial system does it say that your lawyer has to actually make the jury think you're innocent. That would usually just be bad business, but in this case who would want to do a good job of representing him? He should then be publicly humiliated and killed in the worst way allowed by the law.

[jerseydevil]

Well there was a supposed 6 page letter released from Al Qaeda to Al Jazeera - in addition to demanding the US to stay out of the affairs of Chechnya/Russia, and Palestians/Israelis - they are now telling Americans to convert to Islam.

Al-Jazeera: Al Qaeda issues new threat
Fouda noted that al Qaeda had previously placed the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf "holy lands" as the group's first priority. But now, he said, the Palestinian issue is its first priority.

Chechnya, Kashmir, the Philippines and the Iraqi government are also issues raised in the letter, Fouda said, which ends with a call for the American people to convert to Islam.

I guess I was right about this one - that they want to take over the world and won't be happy until everyone lives under what they believe. If the letter is authentic. Even if it's niot - it's still my belief they won't be happy until they "take over" the world with their beliefs.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I guess I was right about this one - that they want to take over the world and won't be happy until everyone lives under what they believe.

Sounds just like the Disney Corporation

Seriously.........these people are fanatics and until the world has proof that the ol' Binladin is dead then we must act/react as if he is alive and take any "messages", audio or otherwise, seriously.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Sounds just like the Disney Corporation

Walt Disney World is the greatest. Their animated movies have gone to cookie cutter crap (definitely not to the standards of Disney when he was a live.)

Seriously.........these people are fanatics and until the world has proof that the ol' Binladin is dead then we must act/react as if he is alive and take any "messages", audio or otherwise, seriously.

I agree with you. We must assume everything is authentic and that it is coming from him. Of course he's threatening my area again Washington is 3 hours south of me and New York is about 30- 40 miles north. The post office where the anthrax letters were processed is 20 miles from me and was the processing center for my mail. It's still closed down.

I was thinking of ways they can attack us - and if you think about all the places you're vulnerable - we wouldn't leave our house.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I was thinking of ways they can attack us - and if you think about all the places you're vulnerable - we wouldn't leave our house.

It's a terrifying reality isn't it?

Very off-subject I know but 3 yrs ago an IRA ammunition dump was discovered by the police not 18 miles from my home......they found the usual weapons (automatic rifles, machine guns, pistols etc) and enough semtex to level most of my home county

Yeesh what a world we live in

Edit:I'm probably way off on the 3yrs ago estimate........in hindsight it was probably a lot longer

[jerseydevil]

Well the US government has come out and confirmed that they feel the tape is legitimate. Osama Bin Laden is still alive - at least at the moment the latest tape was recorded.

Assuming that the latest letter from Bin Laden is legimate too - how many people are going to convert to Islam as he has now told Americans to do?

[Elvellon]

I too believe it is likely he is still alive. I agree that the likely reason for an audio message instead of a video one is simply because he changed is appearance and don’t want his cover exposed.

I doubt he had anything to do with the Moscow events; he is probably simply trying to capitalize on it. Typical of his kind.

[Radagast The Brown]

I'll answer to the first original question:

I can guess and say that I really don't think that Osama Bin Laden is dead. Not a chance. But, I can't know that.... almost no one can.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well the US government has come out and confirmed that they feel the tape is legitimate. Osama Bin Laden is still alive - at least at the moment the latest tape was recorded.

Not a real surprise (although certainly not good news)

What worries me is that he can still so easily get a message to the media (and therefore to his followers). He must still have a really good network working for him (especially good if he is still hiding in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Maybe that is why he used audio tape this time. Maybe it was recorded via telephone or similar?.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Maybe that is why he used audio tape this time. Maybe it was recorded via telephone or similar?.

That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that. At least there is one good thing with that - it means that he is unable to possibly move freely. Although obviously that means that he can still get messages out to his forces like you said.

[Elvellon]

or the fact that he needs to preserve his cover may indicate he is not in a safe haven. He obviously doesn’t trust the locals.

[jerseydevil]

Last week the Swiss reported that they studied the latest Bin Laden tape and they're 55-60% sure that it's NOT him.

Is it better if we know what happened to him or if it's a mystery? Is it better if he's alive or dead? I think it's better if he's dead and the world knows it. For one thing he always went on that Allah will seek revenge on those that don't follow Allah's word. It would seem that if Osama can claim that Allah allowed 9/11 to occur - the west can claim that Allah allowed the US to take action against bin Laden for his diabolical act.

Unlike during the World Wars where we used the enemies own propaganda against them - it seems like in the Political Correct world we live in today that it is taboo to turn their religion around on them.

[Dunadan]

Am I the only one here who thinks it would be better for Bin Laden to remain alive?

If he was killed it would just turn him into a martyr for like-minded zealots. Look at what happened with Jesus...

The best thing would be for him to drift into obscurity and irrelevance, unable to settle anywhere and constantly on the run. His support will evaporate over time, assuming something sensible is done about Palestine.

Then, when he's in his 70s, he can be caught cashing his giro in Peckham and dragged before the courts, like a Nazi war criminal.

cheers

d.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Am I the only one here who thinks it would be better for Bin Laden to remain alive? If he was killed it would just turn him into a martyr for like-minded zealots.

Which came first - Bin Laden or the zealots? The zealots, I think, and they will always be out there. The problem with the one currently using them for his own advantage, Osama Bin Laden, is that his money, family connections and his brain are dangerous to us: the twisted minds of the zealous nuts throughout the world (I mean, now they're blowing up movie houses in Bangladesh!) concentrate and magnify these strengths of his just as the curved edge of a bottle will concentrate sunlight and start a fire. His death would put an end to his money and his brain, intimidate his family connections into passiveness, and de-focus/defuse the zealots for the foreseeable future (there is a distinct disadvantage to having all your eggs in one basket, so to speak), and so it is devoutly to be wished for...at least from this quarter

As the quote from Mahatma Gandhi goes, "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence."

And also, nothing sensible is ever done about anything, ever. It's one of the Maxwell equations (Maxwell Smart, perhaps), or laws of thermodynamics or something....