bin Laden offers Europe truce (BBC News)

Radagast · 04-15-2004, 05:39 AM

'Bin Laden' offers Europe truce

Two Arab TV channels have broadcast an audiotape said to be from Osama Bin Laden in which he offers Europe a truce if it "stops attacking Muslims".

But in the tape, aired by al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera satellite channels, the voice said the truce would not be extended to the US, Reuters reported.

The person on the tape also vowed to avenge Israel's killing of Palestinian cleric Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

The authenticity of the tape could not be immediately verified.

The voice on the tape said that "the door is open" for about three months to forge a truce, although this could be extended.

The truce itself would then begin when "the last soldier" leaves "our countries", it added.

The tape also refers to the 11 March bombings in the Spanish capital, Madrid, and the events of 11 September 2001.

It said the attacks were payment for US and Spanish actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian territories.

"What happened on 11 September and 11 March are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all," the voice said.

"Stop spilling our blood so we can stop spilling your blood."

Spain has been a prominent member of the US-led coalition in Iraq, although its new prime minister has said Spanish troops could be withdrawn if the situation in Iraq does not improve.

BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says the timing of the tape's release - if it is Osama Bin Laden - is significant, emerging shortly after US President George W Bush gave a major news conference defending US policies on Iraq

The tape could be a propaganda attempt to counter what the US president said, our correspondent adds.

The tape also reportedly criticised US policy for ignoring the "real problem" which is "the occupation of all of Palestine", the Associated Press reported.

It said the death of Sheikh Yassin, spiritual leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, would be avenged.

"We vow before God to take revenge for him from America for this, God willing," it said.

Sheikh Yassin was killed in an Israeli missile attack in March in the Gaza Strip.

The tape also condemned the US-led occupation of Iraq as a money-making scheme for companies making weapons or aiding reconstruction efforts - specifically naming the American firm Halliburton, AP said.

Several tapes purporting to be by Osama Bin Laden have surfaced since the 11 September attacks - which the US has blamed on his al-Qaeda network.

The most recent, broadcast in January by al-Jazeera, condemned the occupation of Iraq and attacked Arab nations which supported the war.

The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later said that analysis indicated the voice on the January tape was that of Osama Bin Laden.

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How outrageous! How could we in Europe possibly agree to a truce with the greatest blackguard in recent times? The man who orchestrated the most appalling act of terrorism the world has ever seen? How could we in Britain desert our U.S. allies by agreeing to this? It was a cowardly and indefensible move for Spain to remove her troops from Iraq, and we shall not be doing the same. 'When the going gets tough, the tough get going' seems to be Spain's attitude.

Janny · 04-15-2004, 05:50 AM

I agree wholeheartedly. But the thing we know is that it will only be the voters of contries who will bring countries from the war, as in Spain, thanks to the stand made initially by the Japanese Prime Minister.
Perhaps this should be seized on as a weakness of bin Laden, given how the coalition ceasefires have been criticised.

Radagast · 04-15-2004, 05:58 AM

What annoys me is that he feels he is in a position to negotiate- to call the shots, as it were. He is nothing more than a murderer, he is not holy, nor is he on any sort of mission from God- he is just a criminal, and a vile one at that who must be brought to justice for his atrocities.

***Fat middle*** · 04-15-2004, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast
It was a cowardly and indefensible move for Spain to remove her troops from Iraq, and we shall not be doing the same. 'When the going gets tough, the tough get going' seems to be Spain's attitude.

Well, Spain has not retired its troops from Iraq yet. Let's see what happens in the end.

Anyway, I think that the problem is more complicated than what you've said. Our new President, Zapatero, promissed to retire the troops before the attacks of March 11th. It was one of his main electoral promisses.

He didn't agree with our troops being in Iraq because he thought that the peacemaking process in which they're involved is a consequence of an illegal war that began without the consent of the UN.

So his decission is not a consequence of the terrorist attacks (although Al-Qaeda of course wants to claim this "goal"). However, I think that many that voted him were influenced by the attacks and that can be named a "cowardly or indefensible move".

And about the offer of this "truce", I think it's another trap: he's just using the division within the EU about the Iraq war against us.

Janny · 04-15-2004, 07:20 AM

You make valid points. Certainly there is no past record for taking bin Laden on face value. Take Madrid for example: After the government change and promise of troop removal there was the essage that there would be no more bloodshed there. Shortly afterwards a bomb was found on a stretch of railway line.

I think the point about the electoral promise was that in itself it was a cowardly promise to make. I suppose as the opposition it is the role to question the government, but still it is possible to criticise for capitalising from a brave but unpopular decision by the former leader.

GrayMouser · 04-15-2004, 09:15 AM

If it is from bin Laden, it's an obvious and clumsy ploy that (one certainly hopes) will be totaly rejected by all European governments, whatever their position on the Iraq War.

Plus which, I doubt if he's in a position to make good on it anyway-it looks like the Madrid bombers were acting independently, and were turned down when they sought money and support- all they got was permission to use al Qaeda's name.

So how's he going to stop these free-floating groups who have their own hatreds and agenda?

brownjenkins · 04-15-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast
How outrageous! How could we in Europe possibly agree to a truce with the greatest blackguard in recent times? The man who orchestrated the most appalling act of terrorism the world has ever seen? How could we in Britain desert our U.S. allies by agreeing to this? It was a cowardly and indefensible move for Spain to remove her troops from Iraq, and we shall not be doing the same. 'When the going gets tough, the tough get going' seems to be Spain's attitude.

spain's new leader is actually following the will of his people... i have no problem with that... bin laden's message was meant to cause dissention and divide those who oppose him... don't let it work

***Fat middle*** · 04-15-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Janny
I think the point about the electoral promise was that in itself it was a cowardly promise to make. I suppose as the opposition it is the role to question the government, but still it is possible to criticise for capitalising from a brave but unpopular decision by the former leader.

True. I agre it was coward in that sense: politically coward if you want, but it had nothing to do with terrorism since it was based on the assumption (shared with many european countries) that the Iraq war had nothing to do with terrorism.

Bin Laden it's trying to prove that it do has to do with terrorism, and so presenting a dilemma to those countries (or politicians) that denied it.

I must clarify that I'm not personally sure that the war itself was closely related to terrorism, but Al-Qaeda and the coalition vave in common that they want everybody to believe it.

Elf Girl · 04-15-2004, 03:05 PM

If that's Bin Laden, I'm... not Elf Girl.

Janny · 04-15-2004, 04:11 PM

Wasn't it verified as bL by the CIA?
Sorry what was your name?

***IronParrot*** · 04-16-2004, 05:39 AM

This, to me, stinks of Osama bin Laden pretending that he has even a shred of diplomatic legitimacy. He doesn't.

***Earniel*** · 04-17-2004, 03:49 PM

If it is really is Bin Laden, then it seems to me he just wants to get attention. He had his 5 minutes of fame a while ago and he's just annoyed that other terrorists now steal his lime light.

Besides, he's not even in a position to offer such things, he isn't the leader of all the terrorist groups, even if some have ties to his.

04-15-2004, 05:39 AM	#1
Radagast Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Merry old England Posts: 413	bin Laden offers Europe truce (BBC News) 'Bin Laden' offers Europe truce Two Arab TV channels have broadcast an audiotape said to be from Osama Bin Laden in which he offers Europe a truce if it "stops attacking Muslims". But in the tape, aired by al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera satellite channels, the voice said the truce would not be extended to the US, Reuters reported. The person on the tape also vowed to avenge Israel's killing of Palestinian cleric Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. The authenticity of the tape could not be immediately verified. The voice on the tape said that "the door is open" for about three months to forge a truce, although this could be extended. The truce itself would then begin when "the last soldier" leaves "our countries", it added. The tape also refers to the 11 March bombings in the Spanish capital, Madrid, and the events of 11 September 2001. It said the attacks were payment for US and Spanish actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian territories. "What happened on 11 September and 11 March are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all," the voice said. "Stop spilling our blood so we can stop spilling your blood." Spain has been a prominent member of the US-led coalition in Iraq, although its new prime minister has said Spanish troops could be withdrawn if the situation in Iraq does not improve. BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says the timing of the tape's release - if it is Osama Bin Laden - is significant, emerging shortly after US President George W Bush gave a major news conference defending US policies on Iraq The tape could be a propaganda attempt to counter what the US president said, our correspondent adds. The tape also reportedly criticised US policy for ignoring the "real problem" which is "the occupation of all of Palestine", the Associated Press reported. It said the death of Sheikh Yassin, spiritual leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, would be avenged. "We vow before God to take revenge for him from America for this, God willing," it said. Sheikh Yassin was killed in an Israeli missile attack in March in the Gaza Strip. The tape also condemned the US-led occupation of Iraq as a money-making scheme for companies making weapons or aiding reconstruction efforts - specifically naming the American firm Halliburton, AP said. Several tapes purporting to be by Osama Bin Laden have surfaced since the 11 September attacks - which the US has blamed on his al-Qaeda network. The most recent, broadcast in January by al-Jazeera, condemned the occupation of Iraq and attacked Arab nations which supported the war. The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later said that analysis indicated the voice on the January tape was that of Osama Bin Laden. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How outrageous! How could we in Europe possibly agree to a truce with the greatest blackguard in recent times? The man who orchestrated the most appalling act of terrorism the world has ever seen? How could we in Britain desert our U.S. allies by agreeing to this? It was a cowardly and indefensible move for Spain to remove her troops from Iraq, and we shall not be doing the same. 'When the going gets tough, the tough get going' seems to be Spain's attitude. __________________ Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought.

04-15-2004, 05:50 AM	#2
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	I agree wholeheartedly. But the thing we know is that it will only be the voters of contries who will bring countries from the war, as in Spain, thanks to the stand made initially by the Japanese Prime Minister. Perhaps this should be seized on as a weakness of bin Laden, given how the coalition ceasefires have been criticised. __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

04-15-2004, 05:58 AM	#3
Radagast Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Merry old England Posts: 413	What annoys me is that he feels he is in a position to negotiate- to call the shots, as it were. He is nothing more than a murderer, he is not holy, nor is he on any sort of mission from God- he is just a criminal, and a vile one at that who must be brought to justice for his atrocities. __________________ Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought.

04-15-2004, 07:20 AM	#5
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	You make valid points. Certainly there is no past record for taking bin Laden on face value. Take Madrid for example: After the government change and promise of troop removal there was the essage that there would be no more bloodshed there. Shortly afterwards a bomb was found on a stretch of railway line. I think the point about the electoral promise was that in itself it was a cowardly promise to make. I suppose as the opposition it is the role to question the government, but still it is possible to criticise for capitalising from a brave but unpopular decision by the former leader. __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

04-15-2004, 09:15 AM	#6
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	If it is from bin Laden, it's an obvious and clumsy ploy that (one certainly hopes) will be totaly rejected by all European governments, whatever their position on the Iraq War. Plus which, I doubt if he's in a position to make good on it anyway-it looks like the Madrid bombers were acting independently, and were turned down when they sought money and support- all they got was permission to use al Qaeda's name. So how's he going to stop these free-floating groups who have their own hatreds and agenda? __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

04-15-2004, 03:05 PM	#9
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	If that's Bin Laden, I'm... not Elf Girl. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-15-2004, 04:11 PM	#10
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	Wasn't it verified as bL by the CIA? Sorry what was your name? __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

04-16-2004, 05:39 AM	#11
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	This, to me, stinks of Osama bin Laden pretending that he has even a shred of diplomatic legitimacy. He doesn't. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

04-17-2004, 03:49 PM	#12
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	If it is really is Bin Laden, then it seems to me he just wants to get attention. He had his 5 minutes of fame a while ago and he's just annoyed that other terrorists now steal his lime light. Besides, he's not even in a position to offer such things, he isn't the leader of all the terrorist groups, even if some have ties to his. __________________ We are not things.