how can we manage without the Scouring of the Shire

[BeardofPants]

Yes. And it was also a means of showing how far the evil had permeated in middle earth.

[LuthienTinuviel]

well, im leaving myself open and purposely not trying to think about it. i won't cry if it's not there, and i won't pee on myself in excitement if it is.

here's something funny: go to the waaayyyy back of the movie board and find the threads that were put up before the FotR movie came out. see what we might be doing to ourselves?

[Sween]

we can live without the scourging in the movie because it doesnt make sence in a movie. in movies you cannot have multipal endings anyone that has watched castaway will know this the film should end when he is resuced not 40 minutes later.

[Foul_Dwimmerlaik]

By the time of the scouring, Merry and Pippin are knights of Rohan and Gondor, respectively; Merry has helped to slay the second worst thing in the world; Pippin has saved Farimir's life and represented his entire race at the gates of Mordor.

You don't need the scouring to show their character development; their actions speak for themselves.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Foul_Dwimmerlaik
You don't need the scouring to show their character development; their actions speak for themselves.

That is true. However, the scouring was also good, in that it showed how far the evil had spread: it had even permeated into Hobbiton! How PJ is gonna portray this without doing the scouring is anyone's guess. But all I can say is,

if he ****s up, I'm gonna go down and castrate him!!

[olsonm]

Pj won't what to show evil permeating the Shire as that would be to complex (and time consuming) for the way he's telling the story. If we get anything it'll probably the underappreciation of Frodo by the Shire-folk.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by olsonm
Pj won't what to show evil permeating the Shire as that would be to complex (and time consuming) for the way he's telling the story. If we get anything it'll probably the underappreciation of Frodo by the Shire-folk.

How is that too complex, or time consuming? You can do those kind of scenes easily enough, if you do a collage of what's happening so to speak. But I guess he's already done that, with Galadriel's mirror.

[olsonm]

He'd have to explain where the evil came from and how they got rid of it. Time consuming. It's clear that for PJ Mt. Doom is the climax of the story, so it won't come in the middle of ROTK but near the end. That leaves little time. The Scouring is too complex to be reduced to a point where it won't interfer with the flow of the movie.

[BeardofPants]

Yes, we've already discussed this. I'm talking about the degree to which the evil has spread NOT the scouring of the shire. And I ask again: how is this too complex, or too time consuming to show? Obviously he has decided to focus on the destruction of the ring, and shift it to the end, but this doesn't mean that he can't show the distruction elsewhere, right? (ie Hobbiton, please? Please? Pretty, pretty please???) As for where the evil came from: well, there's always that red-eyed wonder in Mordor...

[olsonm]

What do you mean? Show the Shire having been affected by the war?

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by olsonm
What do you mean? Show the Shire having been affected by the war?

Well, that would be good. But I just mean in general. That it wasn't just Minas Tirith and Rohan effected by Sauron's dominion, and the war of the ring. He could do it without wasting time, if he sort of showed a collage. Or I guess he could use Galadriel's mirror. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, that even though he can't/won't squeeze in the scouring, I hope he does manage to show the "downfall" of the shire. In SOME fashion.

[Entlover]

Originally posted by BeardofPants B]
even though he can't/won't squeeze in the scouring, I hope he does manage to show the "downfall" of the shire. In SOME fashion. [/B]

Yes. But then he'll have to show the saving and renewal of the Shire -- he can't just leave it downfallen. I don't like the idea of a collage, it would detract from the personal level of the story he's been telling.
It would be cool to see Sam planting and growing the new Party Tree.

[cassiopeia]

That's a good idea, Bop. Maybe when the Hobbits get back to the shire, some parts have been wrecked by men and/or orcs. That would be a better tribute to the scouring of the shire, than one minute in Galadriels mirror. PJ are you listening???? Beware of Bop

[IronParrot]

I used to whine and kvetch about the whole thing with the Scouring before it was even announced that it was going to be cut, but... after seeing the film of FOTR (and LOVING it) I've changed my mind.

A few points:

1) What works well on paper doesn't always work so well on film. For example, with Bombadil, he is thematically important, but film as a medium doesn't have the same flexibility of pacing to accomodate for such a detour. And I'd rather have no Bombadil than a bad one, and let's just say that a jolly singing guy in big yellow boots is best left to the powers of imagination.

2) While the Scouring is a good emotional climax in the novel, it is not as visually majestic as the climax of the simultaneous confrontation at the Morannon and the destruction of the One Ring. The power of film lies in the visuals, and their progressive development - especially in an epic as visual as this one. Not saying I don't miss the Scouring - I do - but pacing has to be taken into account.

3) This is no different than if a film depicting the Second World War ended with the defeat of the Nazis instead of the victory in the Pacific Theatre. If the film focused primarily on the Nazi menace, then that would be an appropriate ending. Same idea.

4) The Scouring involves several characters - Lotho, Bill Ferny, Will Whitfoot, etc. - that weren't introduced in FOTR, and with good reason. You can't have as many distinct characters on film as you can on paper, since faces and spoken names are naturally not as well retained in one's memory as written names are. Hence, why so many minor characters were cut.

5) ROTK will almost certainly end with the Grey Havens. Peter Jackson has repeatedly said that the Havens are his favourite part of the entire novel.

[HobbitChick88]

Wow, these are all such good points, I'm not even sure what to think anymore!

[olsonm]

Well, if you're going to miss the Scouring there's nothing wrong with that. Still, I suggest that you try to enjoy the movie for what it is, and if you still miss the Scouring, never forget, the best possible version of it is available on your very own bookshelf!

[cassiopeia]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the ROTK ends with Bilbo and Frodo going off to the havens. But will they explain what that means? I didn't even know what it really meant when I read the book.

IronParrot, you make some good points. I agree that Tom Bombadil would not be good for the FOTR. Imagine what people would say when they saw this wierd old guy singing hey ho derry dol. They would laugh and cringe!

[Entlover]

Originally posted by IronParrot
2) While the Scouring is a good emotional climax in the novel, it is not as visually majestic as the climax of the simultaneous confrontation at the Morannon and the destruction of the One Ring.
__________________________________________________ _

Very excellent point. It gives me chills thinking how suspenseful and exciting those scenes could be.




Peter Jackson has repeatedly said that the Havens are his favourite part of the entire novel.

Do you think by that he means the last chapter? That would include Sam planting his tree, reviving the Shire, Frodo's illnesses, and the ride to the havens.

[Panther2112]

I would like to see the scouring of the Shire, but will understand if it is not included in the last movie. I think IronPariot made some good points, although I would have loved to see Tom and the Barrow Wraiths in TFOTR. Anyway I still loved the movie and thought PJ did a great job of bring the book to the big screen. But as anyone can tell you the book will always be supieor to the movie. You really just can't compare the two as they are totally different animals. Peace everyone.

[Sween]

i really loved the scourging of the shire in the book but it will not transfer well to film.

From the destruction of the ring what will pj include. We can be certain the wedding and crowning of aragon will be in there somewhere. and the fellowship will split up at some point.

how will the ending be handled. will it be like the start of fellowshiop with a gandriel voice over saying what has passed.

like the though of the hevens been in there but i dont know if it will have the same emotional climax of the book