The Return of Melkor (Later days church of Morgoth)

[Metus_of_Morgul]

Lets see,Melkor the first Dark Lord was outside of the whole world,in the void,and this was guarded by some...ones..

So it is possible that the guards were there in case he finds a way out?
Certainly he was not killed or something,you cant kill a Valar how ever deep he fell...so there must be a possibility that He could return..
I bet Sauron,even if he had won the war of the ring would not do anything to return him,that would make him 2nd in command,and he would not like it.
But for those who remained...for it is said that the evil these dark lords did will never be totally cleaned,until the foundations of Arda are re made...
So in the 4th age,we still have somewhere in the far ,far east 2 wizards,Alatar and Palando who probably turned to the dark side (because Sauron gave 'em chocolate) and had enough time to study the dark arts,even maybe to open a vortex which could be used to free the (one true) Dark Lord...?

[Earniel]

Moving this to the Middle-earth forum.

Not sure if there were guards, but if the Valar had locked Morgoth away beyond the gates of the world, into the void, IMO it's going to take strength equal to the Valar to get him out again. I don't think fallen wizards would cut it. If Morgoth was to get out, I reckon he'd have to do it on his own strength.

Welcome to the Entmoot, by the way.

[Metus_of_Morgul]

Thank you,and sorry for posting this to the wrong place...

Well the Valars seem to lost care for all that is happening in middle earth (and I have a strong feeling deep inside like the whole story is still going on) maybe with enough support they will make him free...or at least bring Sauron back...but there will be noone to write this down with enough enthusiasm like Tolkien did

[Metus_of_Morgul]

Maybe they need Gordon Freeman he is able to mess up things and open portals to another dimensions

[Alcuin]

There’s been mention recently in another thread of the “second prophecy of Mandos”, which Tolkien may or may not have later discarded. According to this prophecy in the legendarium, Morgoth does escape, but he is killed by Turin Turambar in the Dagor Dagorath or Final Battle.

[Metus_of_Morgul]

That would leave a HUGE time line unrecorded...I dont think that like with the 4th age still going on it would be all ended...There is just so much that could happen meanwhile...But I m highly inspired by the lack of the information about the blue wizards..they might just be the beginning of a new dark age. Remember they are Maia as well,and even if fallen,they would be able to do horrible things

[Earniel]

There is a short bit of a 4th age story that Tolkien started writing where evil once again seems to rear its ugly head. Although it would seem that the time of the 'big' dark lords is definitely over by now- at least until the possible return of Morgoth.

But the 4th age no doubt had plenty of 'little' evils, perhaps not of the strength of either Morgoth or Sauron, but evil does not need strength to be succesful. A honeyed voice is often enough.

[brownjenkins]

I've always thought of Melkor as the key to the genesis, and development of middle earth. Eru didn't make a mistake. He knew that a true empowered rival would be the only thing that could bring his creation to real fruition, as opposed to just an expression of himself.

I'm sure he returned many times because he represented something no creator can create, enthusiasm!

[celebannon]

Well, in the Simirillion it says that the Valar cut off Melkor's feet and hurled him into the void. It might take a bit to come back from that (do Valar heal like mortals; or do their wounds fester and pain them forever?) Even if he doesn't come back, and Sauron and the Witch King are dead, there is still Gothmog. I don't recall reading that he was destroyed.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

killed by Turin Turambar in the Dagor Dagorath

That would be awesome.

Note that Sauron, as a lesser emissary of Morgoth, was able to wreak havoc as great, and threaten dominion.

As elves departed and men diminished, surely other, "lesser" evils would be comparatively equally as threatening. Indeed, at the end of the Second Age, it was the corruption of Men that posed the greatest threat.

Similar to BJ, IMO Morgoth's will exists within the fabric of the world and would continue to bear fruit.

[EllethValatari]

I was actually wondering the same thing about Sauron's fall in the 3rd age. If he was able to come back once, why couldn't he again?

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

If [Sauron] was able to come back once, why couldn't he again?

Assuming that I have quoted you correctly, and you are referring to Sauron, not Morgoth,

The greater part of Sauron’s power was in the One Ring in order to dominate the bearers of the other Ring. Once it was destroyed, his power was dispersed, and he was reduced to a spirit of malice, unable to render effect on the world around him.

[EllethValatari]

Yes, you did Alcuin.

Thanks! That was never very clear to me but now it is.

[Taniquetil]

Originally Posted by celebannon

Well, in the Simirillion it says that the Valar cut off Melkor's feet and hurled him into the void. It might take a bit to come back from that (do Valar heal like mortals; or do their wounds fester and pain them forever?) Even if he doesn't come back, and Sauron and the Witch King are dead, there is still Gothmog. I don't recall reading that he was destroyed.

Well, under normal circumstances the Valar pbobably could heal themselves. But given Melkor's fallen state (in which he apparently couldn't even heal himself from the wounds given him by Fingolfin) it is doubtful that he could heal himself of wounds given him by other Valar. I don't remember reading that in the Sil, but it's an excellent point!

Gothmog (Lord of Balrogs and captain of Angband) was finally slain by Ecthelion of the Fountain during the fall of Gondolin. Ecthelion pierced his heart with the spike on his helmet and both of them drowned in the Fountain of Gondolin.

[Onnedhiel]

Originally Posted by celebannon

Well, in the Simirillion it says that the Valar cut off Melkor's feet and hurled him into the void.

I'm pretty certain that the "his feet were hewn from under him" line (which is what I think you're referring to there) did not literally mean that Melkor's feet work cut off. But rather that they were swept from under him, and he was forcibly thrown down upon the floor - i.e. humbled/physically-cowed before the other Valar.

The whole 'cut off' thing seems to be a running misunderstanding whenever the word 'hewn' is used by Tolkien (many people think Fingolfin 'cut off' one of his feet during their battle too, for the very same reason - but that obviously wasn't Tolkien's intention). It's worth noting that 'to hew' something does not always mean 'to cut' it though. Alternative (and, I believe, older) meanings of the word were to 'to fell' something or 'to strike' it, and I think that these are probably the meanings that we have to take in this instance.

Just my, drifting slightly off-topic, two cents.

[celebannon]

You are probably right Onnedhiel. And Taniquentil, I went back and checked and you are completely correct, Gothmog was slain. Oops, lol. I would guess then, that if Melkor can't come back, maybe there is a balrog left over somewhere. They were some of his most powerful servants. I personally believe Morgoth is gone for good.