The Entmoot Court - Page 15

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-02-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

And I would say at this point that the existence of PIE is treated as more than just "speculation" among linguists. Its been proposed and independently labored over since the 18th century and has been widely accepted by most linguists since the beginning of the 20th century to a point of detail that would certainly qualify as much more then just mere speculation. Do they have every word correct? Certainly not. But theres little doubt among most experts that such a language system existed and largely what its vocabulary consisted of.

But that's largely what scholars and philosophers do: they construct a speculative explanation of facts seen in the world, take it up as a given, and use it to construct a set of rules and a framework within which to work.

As far as the degree of acceptance...I hardly need to point out that a thousand years ago, my example of geocentrism was, I'm pretty certain, universally accepted by scholars on very similar grounds: it provided a framework within which those who were so inclined were able to produce a logical and coherent explanation of the data they found in the world around them, and its acceptance had a much stronger pedigree than PIE does today. Simply because a theory is accepted by a great many scholars doesn't make it so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, and I am not saying PIE didn't exist (I believe it did): I'm just a little hesitant about putting such firm belief in the minor parts of such a construction, and assuming that we can reliably and consistently work out all of the particulars of it. When it comes right down to it, I just don't think that the world is so small that we can fit the whole thing in our heads like that.

inked · 06-02-2010, 06:39 PM

Lucid, compelling, well argued. See, Gwai, you can discriminate! Now, go to the "slingshot" thread and do likewise!

trolls' bane · 06-02-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Not sure if Sumerian was considered a direct descendant of indo-European (Afroasiatic perhaps since it was related to Akkadian?) but they were both probably being spoken within less than 1,000 years of each other. The oldest (archaic) form of Sumerian first developed at the very end of the fourth millennium BC (like 31st and 30th centuries) while the conservative emergence for PIE is the beginning of the fourth millennium BC with some hypothesis taking it back as far as the 10th millennium! Which would make it virtually paleolithic.

And I would say at this point that the existence of PIE is treated as more than just "speculation" among linguists. Its been proposed and independently labored over since the 18th century and has been widely accepted by most linguists since the beginning of the 20th century to a point of detail that would certainly qualify as much more then just mere speculation. Do they have every word correct? Certainly not. But theres little doubt among most experts that such a language system existed and largely what its vocabulary consisted of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

But that's largely what scholars and philosophers do: they construct a speculative explanation of facts seen in the world, take it up as a given, and use it to construct a set of rules and a framework within which to work.

As far as the degree of acceptance...I hardly need to point out that a thousand years ago, my example of geocentrism was, I'm pretty certain, universally accepted by scholars on very similar grounds: it provided a framework within which those who were so inclined were able to produce a logical and coherent explanation of the data they found in the world around them, and its acceptance had a much stronger pedigree than PIE does today. Simply because a theory is accepted by a great many scholars doesn't make it so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, and I am not saying PIE didn't exist (I believe it did): I'm just a little hesitant about putting such firm belief in the minor parts of such a construction, and assuming that we can reliably and consistently work out all of the particulars of it. When it comes right down to it, I just don't think that the world is so small that we can fit the whole thing in our heads like that.

Only on Entmoot do chaotic, humourous threads with no recognizable merit whatsoever quickly decay into ordered, serious discussions of scholarly import.

***Tessar*** · 06-02-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Only on Entmoot do chaotic, humourous threads with no recognizable merit whatsoever quickly decay into ordered, serious discussions of scholarly import.

Allow me to point you to Gwai's first statement...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

But that's largely what scholars and philosophers do:

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-03-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Only on Entmoot do chaotic, humourous threads with no recognizable merit whatsoever quickly decay into ordered, serious discussions of scholarly import.

Ha! See kids, this is what grad school does to you; beware!

inked · 06-03-2010, 07:14 AM

Once a geek in Middle Earth, always a geek in everything!

Insidious Rex · 06-03-2010, 01:19 PM

Hey we're just getting started. Wait till we start analyzing knock knock jokes for anthropological significance.

Midge · 06-03-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

Impech Hektor und Jonadan!

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

IMPECH AKALY. VIOLATION OF KAMPAN PROMISES! CRUELTY TO BALROGS!

Interesting development. You should have voted for me, Inked!

I'm very glad to know that Entmoot is now safe. Huzzah!

***Tessar*** · 06-03-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Hey we're just getting started. Wait till we start analyzing knock knock jokes for anthropological significance.

Someone related to you has anthropological significance.

IT'S YOUR MUMMY!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

... so what I'm saying is your mom has anthropological significance.

trolls' bane · 06-03-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

Someone related to you has anthropological significance.

IT'S YOUR MUMMY!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

... so what I'm saying is your mom has anthropological significance.

Somehow I doubt making a joke out of ones mother would incite an acceptable degree of group solidarity. Of course, I'm sure the effect would vary between matriarchal and patriarchal societies.

inked · 06-03-2010, 06:42 PM

Ich ben eine votr fur Akaly. Das ist vhy Ich kan kal fur her impechment.

Und Midg, ver hast du ben? Du hast disaperd. Und du suport krulty to balrogs!

De mariag hast not du impruvd?

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-04-2010, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Somehow I doubt making a joke out of ones mother would incite an acceptable degree of group solidarity. Of course, I'm sure the effect would vary between matriarchal and patriarchal societies.

Really, the very presence of such jokes betrays patriarchal power structures.

***Earniel*** · 06-04-2010, 08:58 AM

Okay, as much as I find antropological discussions interesting, this is a court room. So unless any trial is going to start anytime soon, I'm going to refer you lot to the Teacup Cafe.

Midge · 06-04-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

Ich ben eine votr fur Akaly. Das ist vhy Ich kan kal fur her impechment.

Und Midg, ver hast du ben? Du hast disaperd. Und du suport krulty to balrogs!

De mariag hast not du impruvd?

I was off getting married. That can take place in a court.

I kind of think of marriage starts the same way classes start - you have 100% the first day and all your other grades affect that. It's hard to improve something like that in 6 days.

inked · 06-04-2010, 01:51 PM

Und dis iz eine exkuz fur de miztretment of de Balrogs?

Acalewia · 06-06-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midge

I was off getting married. That can take place in a court.

I kind of think of marriage starts the same way classes start - you have 100% the first day and all your other grades affect that. It's hard to improve something like that in 6 days.

I had a class you started with 0%

The teacher was evil.

Ok seriously, Inked. Would you rather of let the Balrog destroy Entmoot because he was awoken from his nap?

inked · 06-06-2010, 04:20 PM

Perhapz du shud disciplin Hektor und Jonadan fur der swordfit vich is vat wok de por thing und de ar responzibl.

De Balrog vas just being tru to itz natur. Und ve kno how much de being natural iz prizd by de 'Mut und de denizenz of de 'Mut.

It vud hav ben very gren to hav let de Balrog do itz thing.

Varum nicht vaz de Balrog alowd to expres itself?

***Varnafindë*** · 06-06-2010, 05:49 PM

And if it had expressed its nature and its anger by burning down the entire Entmoot, where would we be then?

**Mari** · 06-07-2010, 03:43 AM

Not here

Noble Elf Lord · 06-07-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

...Varum nicht vaz de Balrog alowd to expres itself?

*points burns on arms and burnt places in the cafe* ahem...

06-02-2010, 06:39 PM	#282
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Lucid, compelling, well argued. See, Gwai, you can discriminate! Now, go to the "slingshot" thread and do likewise! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-03-2010, 07:14 AM	#286
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Once a geek in Middle Earth, always a geek in everything! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-03-2010, 01:19 PM	#287
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Hey we're just getting started. Wait till we start analyzing knock knock jokes for anthropological significance. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

06-03-2010, 06:42 PM	#291
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Ich ben eine votr fur Akaly. Das ist vhy Ich kan kal fur her impechment. Und Midg, ver hast du ben? Du hast disaperd. Und du suport krulty to balrogs! De mariag hast not du impruvd? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-04-2010, 08:58 AM	#293
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Okay, as much as I find antropological discussions interesting, this is a court room. So unless any trial is going to start anytime soon, I'm going to refer you lot to the Teacup Cafe. __________________ We are not things.

06-04-2010, 01:51 PM	#295
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Und dis iz eine exkuz fur de miztretment of de Balrogs? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-06-2010, 04:20 PM	#297
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Perhapz du shud disciplin Hektor und Jonadan fur der swordfit vich is vat wok de por thing und de ar responzibl. De Balrog vas just being tru to itz natur. Und ve kno how much de being natural iz prizd by de 'Mut und de denizenz of de 'Mut. It vud hav ben very gren to hav let de Balrog do itz thing. Varum nicht vaz de Balrog alowd to expres itself? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-06-2010, 05:49 PM	#298
*Varnafindë* Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Imladris (and sometimes Norway) Posts: 3,304	And if it had expressed its nature and its anger by burning down the entire Entmoot, where would we be then? __________________ Signature picture art - Bard the Bowman - by vigshane Avatar art - Footsteps of Spring (a young Luthien) - by Henning Janssen

06-07-2010, 03:43 AM	#299
Mari Elf Lady Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale Posts: 8,588	Not here __________________ Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply. ...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"...

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