The Eye of Sauron

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Was it indeed merely the distance that daunted the communication? Or could the fact that contact had to cross one of the great waterways (the Anduin) have been a factor also?

It is a good idea, but still the distance seems to be the principal limiting factor. Dol Guldur and Mordor were on the same bank of the Anduin, without a single river in between. In Dol Guldur there were 2 nazgul: Khamul and another who acted as messenger. Why would the messenger be necessary it there were a direct Osanwe contact (or any other direct contact) between Dol Guldur and Barad Dur? Thus it was simply too far for a direct contact.

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I don't think Sauron's form of ósanwe-kenta would be the exact same "technology" (for lack of a better term at the moment) as that used by Gandalf-Galadriel-Elrond, though it may have been based on similar principles. Like Morgoth, he couldn't create, only copy and twist, and so his evil brand of ósanwe-kenta could very well have had impediments that the purer form did not possess. In fact, I could imagine (and I confess I'm imagining much of this) that the purer ósanwe-kenta might be enhanced by the presence of water while the evil ósanwe-kenta was impeded by it.

Sorry, but it makes me think of Good electricity versus Evil electricity.

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Why was Sauron reluctant to allow the Nazgul to cross the Anduin in The Two Towers? I can imagine he was thinking, "I'm not letting you buggers out of com-range again until absolutely necessary."

I guess at Rauros the nazgul were already out of range. Sauron simply didn't want to spoil his big surprise.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

The implication is that there is some sort of communication system between Minas Morgul and Barad-dûr, not ósanwe-kenta. That would imply a device, like the Mirror of Galadriel, or some sort of method short of a palantÃ*r. Gorbag knows it exists, but he is afraid to inquire into its nature for fear of being killed.

Why would osanwe-kenta be ruled out? Of course, it could also have been a telegraph or a Heliograph or something like that - but then there should have been a relay post atop Ephel Duath: Minas Morgul is screened from view from Barad-Dur by the mountains, it is far down in the valley.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

He also knows that messages were sent to Barad-dûr the day after the Watchers sensed the Hobbits, but that the message was delayed because of the march out of Minas Morgul. “And then they couldn't get Lugbúrz to pay attention for a good while, I'm told,� implies that it was not a Nazgûl that sent the message: Sauron would surely have sense enough to pay attention to one of his precious Nazgûl.

I think "they" who were trying to sent the message were the nazgûl:

`No, I don't know,' said Gorbag's voice. `The messages go through quicker than anything could fly, as a rule. But I don't enquire how it's done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgûl give me the creeps.

As for Sauron not paying attention, Shagrat says: "the Eye was busy elsewhere." If he calls Sauron "the Eye", it might mean that Sauron was away from Barad Dûr, most likely visiting Sammath Naur, to help produce that wondrous fire blast that signaled the beginning of the War. Maybe away from the Dark Tower and away from the Nine Rings he couldn't establish osanwe contact with the nazgul? It was the osanwe contact supported by the nine Rings, I think.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

About an hour ago, just before you saw us. A message came: Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs.
That could have been telegraphed, as it were, in letters; more likely, each sentence is a single signal, and the tower received four signals.

Or a messenger arrived from Barad Dur with a written note.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

it also reveals that there was at least one Nazgûl still in Minas Morgul on March 13

. I thought you said it were not the nazgul who sent the message?
But I agree. I see Minas Morgul as the Fell beasts air base: one or two nazgul always there, some changing steeds, or waiting for them to rest and to be fed etc.

[Attalus]

I have just re-read "The Hunt for the Ring," and it only reinforces my feeling that the Nazgul were overrated by the Wise. Their blundering around scarce resembles "the hunters before all else had fallen or fled."

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Attalus

I have just re-read "The Hunt for the Ring," and it only reinforces my feeling that the Nazgul were overrated by the Wise. Their blundering around scarce resembles "the hunters before all else had fallen or fled."

Have you read this old thread by Olmer?
http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=11425

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Have you read this old thread by Olmer?
http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=11425

Yep. As Disraeli said in another connection, "I don't believe a word of it." I stand by my repeated postings.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Sorry, but it makes me think of Good electricity versus Evil electricity.

Even electricity, which this is not, has different forms of generation, storage, and dissemination as well as different methods of use.

We're talking about communication, probably with some form of electromagnetic source more akin to radio, which has many many different forms that are all subject to different sources of interference. We experience AM, FM, short wave, etc. on an almost daily basis, and there are many more ways of using radio.

I may not be right about osanwe-kenta and its relation to water, but don't so easily dismiss the idea that Sauron might use a different form than Gandalf, et al. It isn't only possible, it is also quite likely.