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#21 |
Hobbit
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, CANADA!
Posts: 32
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very funny though
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Gwilwileth, the Easterling |
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#22 |
Sapling
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In my own little fantasy world...
Posts: 9
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Wasn't it cuz Rohan was controlled by Mr. Evil Sauruman Theoden? Maybe thats why and they no longer were free. Aha!
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#23 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
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In my opinion the Dwarves and Gondoreans were planned to be left overboard. But Sauron has interfered. Each party has got an information than at the certain time in Rivendell will take place of some important event, which could be a great concern for theirs people well being. And the Dwarves and Boromir knew for sure that it's the matter of some dealing with magic power, and rushed to the place, making more or less plausible excuses for coming there. Oh, yeh, they showed up in Imladris quite unexpectedly, unforeseen, and uninvited, and the foresighted Elrond, to save his face, had nothing else, but to come up with a superficial excuse, that all of them had been gathered by the providence of Iluvatar."That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say, though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have come and are here met, in this very nick of time, by chance as it may seem. Yet it is not so." (FOTR, Book II, Chapt.II) But, beats me, I don't see what the heck Iluvatar would want to send a representative from the different races, while it could be done by only someone, who could covertly penetrate into Mordor's heartland? The representatives would be needed when you are going to have a parley (with Sauron?? ![]() The second one sounds more plausible. ![]() Last edited by Olmer : 06-28-2006 at 10:59 PM. |
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#24 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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And why leave out the Gondoreans? If Aragorn was to go there eventually, he'd have much better hopes of getting there when acompanying Boromir. And if they were to travel to Mordor, the involvement of Gondor could have been vital. No, leaving them out makes me no sense to me, even if the decision wasn't even Elrond's in the end. And Woses could be counted among Men, just like Hobbits. Quote:
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#25 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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When your only theory is a hammer, every event is a nail.
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#26 | |||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
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There was at that time no enmity between Elves and Dwarves, but nonetheless no great love. For thought the Dwarfs did not serve Morgoth, yet they were in some things more like to his people than to the Elves. (“The Lost Road”, chapt.10, Of Men and Dwarfs.) And ages later things did not change.We know that of other Dwarve's houses(7) only dwarves of Durin were unfriendly with Sauron, and even they did not show to door to Sauron's messengers. The Elves knew that the Dwarves couldn't be a completely reliable allies."[The goblins] did not hate dwarves especially, no more than they hated everybody and everything, and particularly the orderly and prosperous; in some parts wicked dwarves had even made alliances with them. (The Hobbit) On another hand, the Dwarves were not very trusty either and Dain sends in Rivendell as an observer, not anybody else, but specifically Gloin, who feels, to say the least, an antipathy to elves. ”You were less tender to me!”said Gloin with a flash if his eyes, as old memories were stirred of his imprisonment in the deep places of the Elven-king’s halls” (“LOTR”, Book II, Chapter II). Quote:
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Close, I even think that hobbits have some strains of woses, but as a similar race they are not. Quote:
Why? To make sure that the others won't get theirs hands on the Ring . Quote:
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#27 | ||||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
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#28 | |||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Dáin sent someone to get some advice how to handle that shady visitor they had and to warn Bilbo he was sought. There is no evidence of any other motive. Besides, even if in the unlikely event of the Dwarves being unwelcome in Rivendell, and if Elrond had been in control of the invitations, I'm sure Gandalf -who knew the worth of the Dwarves of Erebor first hand- would have been able to convince Elrond of the need to have Dwarves present. No, IMO, the Dwarves would have been there either way. Quote:
Since the route wasn't planned from the beginning, having a Gondorean in the council would certainly have been useful. Both in the planning stage and on the way later. It was after all quite a few years since Thorongil was in Gondor, he couldn't have known the exact situation there. Frankly, I would also find it silly if they couldn't even plan a trip to Mordor in detail but they could plan a coup d'état in Gondor. I think in the end Denethor, like you actually ( ![]() Quote:
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We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 06-29-2006 at 02:52 PM. |
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#29 | |||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
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Denethor, the man of true Numenorian blood, proud and wise, took his enormous responsibilities to rule the diminishing in power kingdom of Gondor deadly earnest, and as a man of strong will and high honor he demanded the same dedication to the cause from everyone, including his sons. . Up to the day when Faramir was brought to the White Tower he was at command of his army, sane and sound. Even Sauron couldn't overcome his strength of mind, only a despair of loosing his last son weakened his iron will and allowed the Dark Lord to break his mind Denethor was not jealous.He was smart and perseptive, can put two and two together to find real meaning behind seemingly innocent events. He did not trust elves, seeing them as self-serving and ignorant to other ME's inhabitants need and suspected (quite rightfully) them and Gandalf to be involved in some shady intrigue against the Men. And after all his perseption was proved to be true:Gandalf WAS planning a coupe to put an elve's marionette at the head of the dominion which is bordering with theirs realm. There WAS a conspiracy, othervise Gandalf wouldn't be instructing Pippin to keep his mouth shut, and Denethor's suspicions was right on the target. Quote:
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Besides, what was a great use of Gimli in the whole story? At least in the movie he was filling in as a comic relief. ![]() Quote:
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The need to destroy (or rehide) the Ring was a unplanned. If Gollum wouldn't blab about it in Mordor, everybody would stay in happy oblivion to its whereabout for another 1000 years. |
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#30 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
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the south kingdom were usurpers anyway.
By rights it should have gone to the Northern Line. All Elrond and his last homely house and political hotbed and breakfast were doing were ... |
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#31 | |||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
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#32 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, CANADA!
Posts: 32
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Gwilwileth, the Easterling |
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#33 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 251
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But if someone from rohan were to go to a place like Rivendell (which was probably feared by the people of rohan, like fangorn forest). You would think that Theoden/Wormtoung would be notified.
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#34 | |||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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It is not because Gimli doesn't fit in some political situation to go along only as an observer to keep the ring out of other people's grubby paws, that he cannot have a use story-wise. His actions are in many ways no less important than those of his travel companions. And personally I find Gimli to be one of the most diverse characters in the whole fellowship. Quote:
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