the fellowship

[gwilwileth]

Why arn't there any people from Rohan in the fellowship?

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

Hi gwil welcome to Entmoot.

I thought the same thing when I fist read the book. How can you have every free race represented in the Fellowship but leave Rohan out? Then I realized that the Counsel of Elrond was more of a spontaneous meeting then a planed one. That and no one was sure where Rohan's alligence lied and how much of Rohan was under Saruman's influence, despite Boromir telling everyone they were indeed on their side. I feel they got shafted for sure. I mean, there wasn't even an attempt to contact them until Gandalf came back.

[Earniel]

Many factions were absent as well from the council. None of the people of Rhovanion were present for example, only the Dwarves. I also doubt any Elf from Lorien attended (although it would probably have been pointless, communication through Galadriel's ring was likely to be more efficient).

But you're right about the suspicions against Rohan, I had almost forgotten about that. Wasn't Rohan also supected to be giving horses to Mordor? (which later were revealed to be stolen, not sold)

[Valandil]

Every free race WAS represented (other than the forgotten Ents - who had never been embroiled in these things - they were never even given any Rings of Power! ) - after all, those in Rohan were not a separate Race - they were Men, so they were represented in the fellowship by Aragorn and Boromir.

Remember that Tolkien uses "race" - not to distinguish between physical characterstics of different Men - but really closer to how we might use "species" - except limited to those who you might say were of a "higher order" - so he wouldn't use "race" to distinguish betwen foxes and bears and owls - but he would to talk about Men, and Elves and Dwarves.

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

Oh I have no disagrement that every race was represented. I'm just saying the Ring also effected the people of Rohan and yet no one seemed to care what their thoughts were. They had Saruman kicking down their door to not only search for the Ring but to just wipe them out entirely and it was shrugged off until Gandalf came back and said they had to go and help Rohan. Gondor would not have survived without the assistance of Rohan.

[Jon S.]

The answer seems obvious to me, yuu might as well castigage Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin for not inviting the Prime Ministers of Canada and Australia to their historic meeting. The Council and the Fellowship had men participating from both the North and South of Middle Earth. Elrond chose correctly based on all relevant factors.

[durinsbane2244]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

The answer seems obvious to me, yuu might as well castigage Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin for not inviting the Prime Ministers of Canada and Australia to their historic meeting. The Council and the Fellowship had men participating from both the North and South of Middle Earth. Elrond chose correctly based on all relevant factors.

hehe clever jon, but watch out for the canadians on board...

[Landroval]

Elrond chose correctly based on all relevant factors.

Hm, Elrond states that he didn't invite those present; or perhaps I am misreading you.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Landroval

Hm, Elrond states that he didn't invite those present; or perhaps I am misreading you.

"And I will choose you companions to go with you, as far as they will or fortune allows." Elrond, The Ring Goes South.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Farimir Captain of Gondor

I realized that the Counsel of Elrond was more of a spontaneous meeting then a planed one.

i definently agree with what you are saying. All the "people" were there for their own reasons. A second thing that you must note is that Boromir didn't even know what Rivendell was, until he set out for it. You can deffinently see that the race of men and the race of elves were slowly, but surely being drawn further and further apart. perhaps Rohan had completely forgotten (or never known) about Rivendell or Elrond.

[gwilwileth]

it is pretty interesting though. Why are there 2 men from gondor and not one from Rohan, or for that matter why not from such places as Haradwaith which must have been envaded and effected by the ring being so close to mordor, and all. All of middle earth was effected; why bring one of every race ( well almost because of the ents) but not one from every large region?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Sam

You can deffinently see that the race of men and the race of elves were slowly, but surely being drawn further and further apart. perhaps Rohan had completely forgotten (or never known) about Rivendell or Elrond.

I think so. Lorien was the only Elven realm near Rohan, and they considered it a dangerous, magical place gouverned by a witch. What would they have thought of Rivendell then, had they known it? And Rohan, in case of trouble, would more likely call on Gondor than on some far-away Elven realm with which they had no connection whatsoever. Wormtongue would no doubt have prevented such happenings anyway, to avoid any outside interference in his plans.

All in all, I think it would have been totally reckless to invite anyone to the Council of whom the allegiance wasn't clear. If Rohan had been invited and turned out to be dealing with Mordor, the whole quest just went down the drain. You might as well send the minutes of the meeting to the Barad-dur. That goes especially if you ended up inviting people from Dunland, Rhun and Harad, who probably not only never heard of you and most likely considered you an enemy.

In a way I think you can say larger forces were at work in bringing everyone to Rivendell around the same time. Boromir came because of his dream. The Dwarves came because they had received disturbing news from an emissary of Mordor and the Hobbits came because little elsewhere was safe enough. Inviting them all would have been quite an undertaking and probably required months of planning, both on the side of the host and the invited.

[GreyMouser]

Because they're a bunch of Johnny-come-lately horse gallopers who aren't related to anybody who is anybody.

"Rohirrim? And what part did your ancestors play in the First Age?"

(Of course that could apply to hobbits, too)

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Wormtongue would no doubt have prevented such happenings anyway, to avoid any outside interference in his plans.

This is a very good point, having someone from Rohan in the fellowship could and would have spelled defeat. Any one loyal Theoden would actually be loyal to wormtounge who was under the command of Saruman who was under the influence of Sauron.

[gwilwileth]

Agreed, but i still wonder doesn't Elrond have seeing in the future powers? Wouldnt he have seen the ring being discovered before it had. Then wouldn't he have had time to plan, knowing the hobbits with the ring were going to rivendell?

[Sam]

true, but if had seen into the future, Sauron would never have crafted the ring, because he would've seen it and warned the elves of Eregion. Perhaps Elrond's abilities can be, in the words of Yoda, "clouded by the dark side."

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Sam

Perhaps Elrond's abilities can be, in the words of Yoda, "clouded by the dark side."

I agree:

Originally Posted by The ring goes south, FotR

- Then I cannot help you much, not even with counsel, said Elrond. I can foresee very little of your road; and how your task is to be achieved I do not know. The Shadow has crept now to the feet of the Mountains, and draws nigh even to the borders of Greyflood; and under the Shadow all is dark to me.

[Sam]

oooo...nice quote!

[gwilwileth]

I think it is better that his visions were clouded. He could have fixed every thing before it happened, and it would have made pretty boring and quite a short book.
ex:
1. Elrond goes to Bilbo BEFORE he gives the ring to frodo
2. Elrond forsees the path where the orcs are and takes a different path
3. Elrond forsees when the eye of saron will look at him and hides.
4. Elrond throughs the ring in the fire
5. Elrond forsees mordor collapsing and runs
6. Elrond returns to rivendell
7. The End

[Sam]

ha! Yes most boring it would have been.