Why "The Lord of the Rings"? - Page 2

Radagast The Brown · 08-20-2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haradrim

But still we knew very early on that the elves were leaving. The only thing that may have come as a surprise is when Frodo and Gandalf leaves. Maybe Im just being too pragmatic (hope thats the word) but I never really saw as a gloomy ending. IT was sad yes bu tnot gloomy and I think there is a big difference

I thought it was obvious Gandalf was leaving actually. The end is sad, relativerly to otehr stories and books. Frodo leaving Sam, for example. We knew the Elves are going to leave - still it doesn't make it less sadder, in my opinion.

Beren3000 · 08-20-2004, 03:53 PM

Exactly! you get the feeling that Middle-Earth became a dreary and lonely place without the Elves.
One of the things that emphasise this feeling is reading (in Appendix B, I think) that when Gimli and Legolas' boat left, "an end was come of the Fellowship in Middle-earth"

Haradrim · 08-20-2004, 04:08 PM

yes but there was still happiness cuz while the fellowship was broken everyone would still have happy lives. Aragorn would have troubled times but all in all I would think he would be very happy in the end. Same with Merry, Pip, and Sam, and we know all the elves, Gandalf, Frodo, and Bilbo had wild parties in Valinor. So I would think it ended on a slighlty down up-note.

Attalus · 08-20-2004, 07:51 PM

Speaking just for myself, when I first read the Trilogy, I had a very real fear that Sauron would regain the Ring.

Haradrim · 08-21-2004, 01:29 AM

Really? WEell I guess it could be like 1984 but then again most fantasy works end on an upside. His really was a rebirth though. I can see how people could think both ways.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-22-2004, 04:44 PM

As for good having complete victory that isn't true. For the powers of the three fade when the One is destroyed. Even Galadriel wasn't totally prepared for that as she shai when asked she wished to happen she replied
'That what will be will be'

Thorin II · 08-30-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attalus

Speaking just for myself, when I first read the Trilogy, I had a very real fear that Sauron would regain the Ring.

My first read was a long time ago, but I remember being sure Sauron would not regain the Ring. Tolkien did establish a willingness to kill off major characters, so I think my primary concern was which members of the Fellowship would survive the quest.

ringbearer · 08-31-2004, 09:28 PM

Back to the original question...Why "The Lord of the Rings"...as Attalus has already stated...the original title is "The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King". Just like everything else in this world the title has been corrupted by mankind. The Hobbits never intended it to be so, and I am sure their decendants are upset about it!

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-01-2004, 02:03 AM

But Tolkien wouldn't have called it 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King' because he thought that the Return of the King had a revealing name so imagine what he would think about 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings '

Attalus · 09-01-2004, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

But Tolkien wouldn't have called it 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King' because he thought that the Return of the King had a revealing name so imagine what he would think about 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings '

This is quite true. This was the title of Frodo's book, revealed after their return to the Shire. I think "THe Lord of the Rings" was chosen quite early on, but don't have a quote. I'll look into the Letters.

Haradrim · 09-02-2004, 01:44 AM

Yeah Frodo would have called it by a different title just like Biblos book. Yeah tolkien would never have given away so much of the ending in just the title. And I always thought GImli the dwarf would die. Too much Robert Jordan I guess.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-02-2004, 01:57 AM

On my version of the Hobbit it is called The Hobbit and There and Back Again.

Haradrim · 09-02-2004, 02:15 AM

thats interesting. Mine just say the Hobbit. On the inside it say s that but not on the cover. Thats wierd. Oh well.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-02-2004, 02:17 AM

That's what I meant on the title page on the inside.

Haradrim · 09-02-2004, 10:29 PM

oh okay cuz I have never seen it on the front and I thoughbt that was pretty cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

ringbearer · 09-14-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haradrim

thats interesting. Mine just say the Hobbit. On the inside it say s that but not on the cover. Thats wierd. Oh well.

My green hardbound version of "The Hobbit" says "The Hobbit or There and Back Again by Bilbo Baggins"...it is written in Runes all around the edges of the cover...AND I have used the appedix on languages to transalte the Runes and that is what they say...thought it was a "nice touch".

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-15-2004, 02:37 AM

Wow. I translated Treebeard's song of Living Creatures into runes.

Gordis · 06-21-2006, 03:47 PM

Big BUMP ! :d

08-20-2004, 04:08 PM	#23
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	yes but there was still happiness cuz while the fellowship was broken everyone would still have happy lives. Aragorn would have troubled times but all in all I would think he would be very happy in the end. Same with Merry, Pip, and Sam, and we know all the elves, Gandalf, Frodo, and Bilbo had wild parties in Valinor. So I would think it ended on a slighlty down up-note. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-20-2004, 07:51 PM	#24
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Speaking just for myself, when I first read the Trilogy, I had a very real fear that Sauron would regain the Ring. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

08-21-2004, 01:29 AM	#25
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Really? WEell I guess it could be like 1984 but then again most fantasy works end on an upside. His really was a rebirth though. I can see how people could think both ways. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-22-2004, 04:44 PM	#26
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	As for good having complete victory that isn't true. For the powers of the three fade when the One is destroyed. Even Galadriel wasn't totally prepared for that as she shai when asked she wished to happen she replied 'That what will be will be' __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-31-2004, 09:28 PM	#28
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	Back to the original question...Why "The Lord of the Rings"...as Attalus has already stated...the original title is "The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King". Just like everything else in this world the title has been corrupted by mankind. The Hobbits never intended it to be so, and I am sure their decendants are upset about it! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-20-2004, 03:53 PM	#22
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Exactly! you get the feeling that Middle-Earth became a dreary and lonely place without the Elves. One of the things that emphasise this feeling is reading (in Appendix B, I think) that when Gimli and Legolas' boat left, "an end was come of the Fellowship in Middle-earth"

09-01-2004, 02:03 AM	#29
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	But Tolkien wouldn't have called it 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King' because he thought that the Return of the King had a revealing name so imagine what he would think about 'The Downfall of The Lord of the Rings ' __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-02-2004, 01:44 AM	#31
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Yeah Frodo would have called it by a different title just like Biblos book. Yeah tolkien would never have given away so much of the ending in just the title. And I always thought GImli the dwarf would die. Too much Robert Jordan I guess. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

09-02-2004, 01:57 AM	#32
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	On my version of the Hobbit it is called The Hobbit and There and Back Again. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-02-2004, 02:15 AM	#33
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	thats interesting. Mine just say the Hobbit. On the inside it say s that but not on the cover. Thats wierd. Oh well. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

09-02-2004, 02:17 AM	#34
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	That's what I meant on the title page on the inside. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-02-2004, 10:29 PM	#35
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	oh okay cuz I have never seen it on the front and I thoughbt that was pretty cool. Thanks for clearing that up. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

09-15-2004, 02:37 AM	#37
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Wow. I translated Treebeard's song of Living Creatures into runes. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

06-21-2006, 03:47 PM	#38
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Big BUMP ! :d

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