Is there a New White Tree?

[Valandil]

Oh yes, no doubt about what's in the book. And the new one planted was already sprouting when found, so they didn't just stick a seed in the ground... and perhaps those things can grow quickly.

I just couldn't tell if the movie shows a new one or not. It would certainly be a nice touch... a nice detail for them to have picked up on.

[Lenya]

Oh, ok. Yes, it would be a nice touch.

[mallondwen]

You guys are all correct in one way or another, but, allow me to point out a few more details that might be helpful. The story of the white tree is too long to account here so I will start with Pippin. Pippin looked into the Palantir and saw the white tree, withered and burning, and when Gandalf took him to Minas Tirith we see the tree again, withered and dead. The next time we see the tree is at Aragorn's Coronation and there it is very much alive and blossoming. But what transpired between these two events, that we find in the books, ROTK, "The Steward and the King."

There came a day when Gandalf could not be found, and the Companions wondered what was going forward. But Gandalf took Aragorn out from the City by night, and he brought him to the southern feet of Mount Mindolluin; and there they found a path made in ages past that few now dared to tread. for it lead up the mountain to a high hallow where only the Kings were wont to go...

'The tree in the Court of the Fountain is still withered and barren. When shall I [Aragorn] see the sign that it will ever be otherwise?'
'Turn your face from the green world, and look where all seems barren and cold!' said Gandalf. Then Aragorn turned, and there was a stony slope behind him running down from the skirts of the snow; and as he looked he was aware that alone there in the waste a growing thing stood. And he climbed to it, and saw that out of the very edge of the snow there sprang a sapling tree no more than three foot high. Already it had put forth young leaves long and shapely, dark above and silver beneath, and upon its slender crown it bore one small cluster of flowers whose white petals shone like the sunlight snow.
Then Aragorn cried: ‘Ye! Utúvienyes! I have found it! Lo! Here is a scion of the Eldest of Trees! But how comes it here? For it is not itself yet seven years old…�

Then Aragorn laid his hand gently to the sapling, and lo! It seemed only to hold only lightly to the earth, and it was removed without hurt; and Aragorn bore it back to the Citadel. Then the withered tree was uprooted, but with reverence; and they did not burn it, but laid it to rest in the silence of Rath DÃ*nen. And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom. ‘The sign has been given,’ said Aragorn, ‘and the day is not far off.’

And then a few days later the Elves arrived and Aragorn’s Coronation was celebrated, Elrond surrendered the sceptre of Annúminas. And also Aragorn and Arwen were wed that day, midsummer’s day. But make no mistake, Aragorn had already been given the Kingdom and already wore the crown, but he was ‘sworn in,’ if you will, on Midsummer’s day in the First year of the Fourth Age. After that the companies departed and all went separate ways.

Hope that helps,
~Mallondwen

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by mallondwen

... if you will, on Midsummer’s day in the First year of the Fourth Age...

ACTUALLY - it was Year 3019 of the Third Age. The Fourth Age was not accounted to have come until the ringbearers passed West over Sea. So the Third Age went until 3021, IIRC, and what would have been TA 3022 was instead FA 1.

[Manveru]

actually in gondor the fourth age had already started, everywhere else it didnt start until the ringbearers passed over the sea

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Manveru

actually in gondor the fourth age had already started, everywhere else it didnt start until the ringbearers passed over the sea

I don't think so... re-read that passage.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

No. The new year had started as it started when Sauron fell. The fourth age began when Elrond left ME.

[Nurvingiel]

One possible theory...

As we have all sadly discovered, what happens in the book doesn't always happen in the movie. After reading this thread, I thought, what if the old tree comes back to life? This doesn't make sense but they might be able to explain it somehow in EE.

If there were buds on the old tree maybe that's what they were getting at.

[Manveru]

in the new EE preview there is a shot with a white bud on a tree, this is probably the white tree of gondor, showing it coming back to life (or a new one growing)

[Pytt]

in the new preview? I command you to post a link here, Manveru. :
cool: right now...

Edit:
is it this one? http://progressive2.stream.aol.com/n...Cut_700_dl.mov

[Manveru]

probably, its at www.lordoftherings.net

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

One possible theory...

As we have all sadly discovered, what happens in the book doesn't always happen in the movie. After reading this thread, I thought, what if the old tree comes back to life? This doesn't make sense but they might be able to explain it somehow in EE.

If there were buds on the old tree maybe that's what they were getting at.

It is really sad that they always change stuff in the movies that is why books are so much better *duh*

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah, the tree can't be a sapling because the bud is midway up the stem of a mature tree.

Either, there is a bud mysteriously appearing on the old tree to signify the appearance of a sapling in the White Mountains (kinda pushing it, but I could live with that), or the old tree is in fact not dead. (I'm not dead... I feel happyyy...)

[Valandil]

On my second viewing of EE I caught it - and even then I almost missed it:

While Denethor is leading the 'funeral procession' for Faramir and himself, at one point they pass in the background, with him doing his monologue, while in the foreground - RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE... you see a white flower on the tree.

Later, I think there's a good shot of it with lots of flowers in bloom... and of course, it's those flowers whose petals are flying all about at the coronation scene.

So... not a NEW white tree - but at least they have the old one coming back to life.

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Yeah, the tree can't be a sapling because the bud is midway up the stem of a mature tree.

Either, there is a bud mysteriously appearing on the old tree to signify the appearance of a sapling in the White Mountains (kinda pushing it, but I could live with that), or the old tree is in fact not dead. (I'm not dead... I feel happyyy...)

I think the old tree is dead. Or I hope so, cause in the book it is.
Why are / were you so happyyy?

[ItalianLegolas]

I agree with Val, i don't think it is showing the birth of a new tree as much as the re-birth i guess you could say, of the old one

[Valandil]

Yes, Movie-Gandalf says something about the people of the city watching and waiting for the White Tree to bloom once more.

[ItalianLegolas]

makes sense to me

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Valandil

On my second viewing of EE I caught it - and even then I almost missed it:

While Denethor is leading the 'funeral procession' for Faramir and himself, at one point they pass in the background, with him doing his monologue, while in the foreground - RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE... you see a white flower on the tree.

Later, I think there's a good shot of it with lots of flowers in bloom... and of course, it's those flowers whose petals are flying all about at the coronation scene.

So... not a NEW white tree - but at least they have the old one coming back to life.

if you listen to the actors commentary, billy boyd and dom monaghan spend a few minutes discussing it, those commentaries are brilliant