Special Viewing for Tolkein, embrace/loath?

[hectorberlioz]

and Aragorn on a fritos(i think it was fritos) chip bag!
just as much overkill as AotC

[Gwaimir Windgem]

BB: I disagree. I think an author's "right" to his work transcends any legal setup with copyrights; I consider it something beyond that.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by HectorBerlioz
"LotR has built up fans over decades..., and to make a actionized movie of it, and hand it over to those DnD fans......, grrr need to go back to venting thread....."
__________________________________________

Yes, in a way I hadn't consciously formulated before, that's the essential problem with the TT. FOTR and the first hour of TT vary from tolerable to excellent adaptations, but the last 2/3 of TT is essentially an unrelated action movie, and there have been some disturbing hints that ROTK may have some of those elements. I have dvds of the first two movies but, to my initial surprise, I haven't once watched TT past the exorcism. The reason seems to be it's just an action event, not LOTR.

[hectorberlioz]

I can watch fotR all the way through. But for some reason I cant get far into TTT at all. Never have I finished watching it since we bought it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
I can watch fotR all the way through. But for some reason I cant get far into TTT at all. Never have I finished watching it since we bought it.

I can't watch FotR - mainly because Pippin and Merry annoy me so much to the insult Jackson gave us with Flight to the Ford.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
How can a copy become a definitive version?

How can adaptations become definitive versions? Easily. By being well-made and capturing the imagination of a generation of movie-goers.

There are countless examples of stories that have taken on a life of their own in different mediums.

What Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz do most people remember? Judy Garland from the classic film or the Dorothy from the book?

Ian Fleming's James Bond became a classic icon only after the film series' success.

Thomas Harris's Hannibal Lector became a cult classic after the release of the Silence of the Lambs' movie and the Award winning performance of Anthony Hopkins.

An example more in line with Tolkien's LOTR is Gone with the Wind. It is a book classic that became a film classic as well.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
How can adaptations become definitive versions? Easily. By being well-made and capturing the imagination of a generation of movie-goers.

That still doesn't make it the difinititve version. The definitive version is the ORIGINAL.

Websters -
1. most reliable or complete
2. serving to define or specify
3. decisive or conclusive

What ever you may think - Jackson's movies do not cover ANY of those definitions.

There are countless examples of stories that have taken on a life of their own in different mediums.

What Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz do most people remember? Judy Garland from the classic film or the Dorothy from the book?

Ian Fleming's James Bond became a classic icon only after the film series' success.

Thomas Harris's Hannibal Lector became a cult classic after the release of the Silence of the Lambs' movie and the Award winning performance of Anthony Hopkins.

NOne of those movies are definitive editions - the original source is. If I want to see what Hannibal REALLY is like - I need to read the book. If I want to know what James Bond is REALLY like - I need to read the book. The books are the definitive versions. Maybe you should get a dictionary.

As for Wizard of Oz - that's really ignorant since Wizard of Oz is an allegory and the movie does NOT show the allegory. Dorothy's shoes were silver for a reason in the book - to represent the Silver Standard and the Yellow Brick Road was Gold - to show the Gold Stanard. In the movie - Dorothy has Ruby slippers - which has no basis for what they were to represent. The Wizard of Oz is a good movie - but in order to analyze the symbolism - you have to study the book - hence the DEFINITIVE version.

An example more in line with Tolkien's LOTR is Gone with the Wind. It is a book classic that became a film classic as well.

There are MANY reasons why Gone with the Wind is a classic - it however is not the DEFINITIVE version of Gone with the Wind - that is reserved for the book. You know - the one where Scarlet O'Hara actually has a son. As for Jackons' action movie being on par with Gone with the Wind - you have got o be joking. There is no way you can compare Gone with the Wind - with Jackson's Lord of the Rings action movie.

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
How can a copy become a definitive version?

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
How can adaptations become definitive versions? Easily. By being well-made and capturing the imagination of a generation of movie-goers.

There are countless examples of stories that have taken on a life of their own in different mediums.

What Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz do most people remember? Judy Garland from the classic film or the Dorothy from the book?

Ian Fleming's James Bond became a classic icon only after the film series' success.

Thomas Harris's Hannibal Lector became a cult classic after the release of the Silence of the Lambs' movie and the Award winning performance of Anthony Hopkins.

An example more in line with Tolkien's LOTR is Gone with the Wind. It is a book classic that became a film classic as well.

Those are not bad examples, but I do not think you can quantify "definitive" based on what most people remember.

By that definition, it would imply that what is considered definitive would constantly change with the times and people.

From the dictionary:
de·fin·i·tive: Authoritative and complete. Precisely defined or explicit.

Film is a different medium (as you have pointed out in many places ) than the printed text. Because of this difference in natures between film and text, I think it is difficult (if not impossible) for a film based on a book to be more definitive than the book. The book can provide more information that cannot be conveyed effectively via film.

Even books that are based on films can sometimes provide more information than what is shown on the screen. Usually this is in the form of letting the reader be aware of what the character is thinking/planning.

I do think that in some cases the film may be more enjoyable to watch than the book may be to read, but I do not think this means that book is less definitive than a film that is based on that book.

Some more examples for people to think about:
(although I think these are only film vs. film instead of book vs. film)

The man who knew too much (1934, 1956)
Both directed by A. Hitchcock. I personally like the 1956 version better, but the 1934 version is very good.

Mutiny on the Bounty (1935, 1962, 1984 'The Bounty')
This may be interesting since they are supposed to be based on real events.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by azalea
The only thing I can see about this thread is the predictability of each members' posts.

I'm going to say my thing, and it is super-predictable. Go ahead guys, predict what I said.

Here's the answer, no cheating now!

I think he would have said, "Wow! Movie-making technology has advanced beyong my wildest dreams since my day! Too bad I actually didn't want anyone to make a movie out of my book."

[hectorberlioz]

wow, i really hate that they made a stupid special effects oriented movie out of my classic, that people have grown to love so much over the decades. to bad someone tried to make a movie of it in the first place if they werent going to stick at least 85% close to the actual storyline and plot. I guess I'll just wait to see what that version hectorberlioz is making turns out to be...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz

Well with JD being supervisor over Hector's movie I'm sure it will be great. I'm sure he will keep it from being another dumbed down hollywood action flick. He'll also be able to keep BB under control. Who the hell does BB think he is telling people that I would accept any changes to the books it took me my entire life to write and perfect.

[hectorberlioz]

I Really think that with a team of azalea,hector and JD, my movie will reach perfection on the screen.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hey! Let's not forget good ole' Gwai!

[Falagar]

And with Falagar as Legolas they will reach all target groups (read: fangirls), and this project is a guarantied winner!

[hectorberlioz]

well go to the lotr remake thread and request a position