Unsung Stories

Starr Polish · 01-07-2003, 12:11 AM

What about the things Tolkien only hinted at in The Silmarillion?

While reading "Of Beren and Luthien", the short passage about Gorlim and Eilinel struck me fairly hard. The fact that Gorlim would not give up his Lord to be released from torture, but only to be reunited with his beloved wife hits me hard, but there isn't anything else written about them.

What are your favorite "unsung stories"?

***Rían*** · 01-07-2003, 06:18 PM

Not in the Sil, but in RoTK - the guys that lead their archers up close to shoot at the eyes of the mumakil (who were causing great damage) in the battle of the Pelennor Fields - they knew they would probably be trampled to death, but they went anyway and did a great service to their side.

I'll have to think about the Sil...

markedel · 01-07-2003, 09:34 PM

I think the fifth battle. Think of all the tragedies involved in that.

Halbarad of the North · 03-26-2003, 11:56 PM

The unsung story i am most interested in is one that is talked about, but not alot is about Eol and his life

Findegil · 03-27-2003, 04:04 PM

Posted by Starr polish:

Quote:

While reading "Of Beren and Luthien", the short passage about Gorlim and Eilinel struck me fairly hard. The fact that Gorlim would not give up his Lord to be released from torture, but only to be reunited with his beloved wife hits me hard, but there isn't anything else written about them.

So you are very lucky. Your favorite "unsung stories" is realy sung! Take a look at The History of Middle-Earth, volume 3: The Lays of Beleriand. In chapter III: The Lay of Leithian is a complte Canto about that story, and in Chapter IV: The Lay of Leithian Recommenced it is told again in a sup-canto of 141 lines.

My own favorit are the later partes of Tal-Elmar. That story was a realy good start for more about the Second Age in Middle-Earth. And also the remarks at the end are very promissing. But Alas! It was never completed.

Respectfully
Findegil

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-27-2003, 04:42 PM

I too loved 'tal-Emar' and I really wished Tolkien had finished it. But I'd much rather he finished the Quenta Silmarillion, with the latter revisions.

***Fat middle*** · 03-27-2003, 04:48 PM

Tolkien has given us the history of ME from lots of points of view, but never from Cirdan's point of view. how did he see things, he that have seen so many things past?

perhaps his story had seen the story of his love to the sea...

Artanis · 03-27-2003, 04:59 PM

It's a small thing but ... I've often wondered what became of Nellas after Túrin left Doriath.

Melko Belcha · 03-28-2003, 10:59 AM

Galadriel's return to Aman and the reuniting with her family.

Starr Polish · 03-28-2003, 09:20 PM

It got bumped!

Oi...I'll have to read that before I begin my fan fic on it then...well, go further into it than I have, anyway. I have, since posting this, heard that other versions of the story say that Gorlim sought Sauron, but I don't think I like that version as well.

Anglorfin · 04-18-2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fat middle
Tolkien has given us the history of ME from lots of points of view, but never from Cirdan's point of view. how did he see things, he that have seen so many things past?

perhaps his story had seen the story of his love to the sea...

Yes, Cirdan is one of the oldest living Elves of Middle Earth yet nothing is ever directly said about him. At best we always get little bits of narrative mentioning some seemingly minor part he played. He's gotta have some interesting stuff about him.

I also would have liked Tolkien to create a more complete and final version of Celebrimor's story. There was also a hint in UT about a possible attraction to Galadriel, I wish he would have gotten in to that and especially into Celebrimbor's early history.

One more, the adventures and travellings of Elladan and Elrohir. Some interesting stuff must have happened. Elrond was wrought with great sorrow because of the passing of Celebrian. I wish Tolkien elaborated on the whole story of Celebrian and her sons.

Melko Belcha · 04-18-2003, 11:48 PM

I would also like to know about the Avari that remained by the waters of Cuivienen.
Did they build a settlement?
Did they migrate somewhere else?
Was there any still left at the time of the War of the Ring?

Inderjit Sanghera · 04-19-2003, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Was there any still left at the time of the War of the Ring?

Due to the War of Wrath, many lands and waters were altered+destroyed, Cuivenen was destroyed too, and by the War of the Ring, the only remain of Helkar (Cuivenen was a small bay in Helkar) was the sea of Rhun, which is said to be the north-western tip. Dorwinion may have been a Avarin settlement though.

Quote:

Did they build a settlement?

None that we know of. The Annals of Aman (HoME 10) tells us about how two Avarin leaders, Morwe and Nurwe resided far away from the main contingent of Elves, thus they didn't see Orome arrive. But, it is probable that this short-lived idea was dropped by Tolkien.

Quote:

Did they migrate somewhere else?

'Quendi and Eldar' HoME 11, tells us that some of the Avari migrated to Beleriand. They were mainly of the Tatyarin (pre-Noldor) origin and unfriendly to their Eldarin kin, because they thought that they were too proud and they felt they had been abandoned by them, and they mainly resided in Southern Beleriand. Some may have been in Ossiriand and even Doriath.

Tolkien also comments on the integration of Nelyarin (pre-Teleri)Avari into several Silvan kingdoms in the S.A such as Lothlorien, under the rule of Amdir-Malgalad and Greenwood under the rule of Oropher.

Melko Belcha · 04-19-2003, 02:24 PM

Thank You Inderjit Sanghera, but I have already read all that, but there still is nothing really known about the Avari after the begining of the Great March. I'm just real curious about the far East of ME ever since I read that small bit in the BoLT of the Elf finding Men asleep. There is no proof, but I do feel there was probably still settlements in the Far East even into the Fourth Age, Elves who knew nothing of the Valar, the War of Wrath, or the War of the Ring. I imagine them living to the east of the Easterlings. Like I said I have no proof on it, but I like the idea.

Finrod Felagund · 04-22-2003, 12:03 PM

Cirdan was there from the beginning-the revolt at least- until the grey ship. He did so much but was so little recognized. He held Narya, he stood by Gil-Galad at the Last Alliance. And he was an elf with a long beard

. We need to hear more about Cirdan's life.

Inderjit Sanghera · 04-22-2003, 01:17 PM

HoME 12; Last Writings has some info. on the wisest being in M-E-Cirdan.

Anglorfin · 04-22-2003, 02:51 PM

I should really get my hands on HoME

01-07-2003, 12:11 AM	#1
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Unsung Stories What about the things Tolkien only hinted at in The Silmarillion? While reading "Of Beren and Luthien", the short passage about Gorlim and Eilinel struck me fairly hard. The fact that Gorlim would not give up his Lord to be released from torture, but only to be reunited with his beloved wife hits me hard, but there isn't anything else written about them. What are your favorite "unsung stories"? __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-07-2003, 06:18 PM	#2
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Not in the Sil, but in RoTK - the guys that lead their archers up close to shoot at the eyes of the mumakil (who were causing great damage) in the battle of the Pelennor Fields - they knew they would probably be trampled to death, but they went anyway and did a great service to their side. I'll have to think about the Sil... __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

01-07-2003, 09:34 PM	#3
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I think the fifth battle. Think of all the tragedies involved in that. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-27-2003, 04:48 PM	#7
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	Tolkien has given us the history of ME from lots of points of view, but never from Cirdan's point of view. how did he see things, he that have seen so many things past? perhaps his story had seen the story of his love to the sea... __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

03-27-2003, 04:59 PM	#8
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	It's a small thing but ... I've often wondered what became of Nellas after Túrin left Doriath. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

03-26-2003, 11:56 PM	#4
Halbarad of the North Sapling Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 8	The unsung story i am most interested in is one that is talked about, but not alot is about Eol and his life

03-27-2003, 04:42 PM	#6
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	I too loved 'tal-Emar' and I really wished Tolkien had finished it. But I'd much rather he finished the Quenta Silmarillion, with the latter revisions.

03-28-2003, 10:59 AM	#9
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	Galadriel's return to Aman and the reuniting with her family. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

03-28-2003, 09:20 PM	#10
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	It got bumped! Oi...I'll have to read that before I begin my fan fic on it then...well, go further into it than I have, anyway. I have, since posting this, heard that other versions of the story say that Gorlim sought Sauron, but I don't think I like that version as well. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

04-18-2003, 11:48 PM	#12
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	I would also like to know about the Avari that remained by the waters of Cuivienen. Did they build a settlement? Did they migrate somewhere else? Was there any still left at the time of the War of the Ring? __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

04-19-2003, 02:24 PM	#14
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	Thank You Inderjit Sanghera, but I have already read all that, but there still is nothing really known about the Avari after the begining of the Great March. I'm just real curious about the far East of ME ever since I read that small bit in the BoLT of the Elf finding Men asleep. There is no proof, but I do feel there was probably still settlements in the Far East even into the Fourth Age, Elves who knew nothing of the Valar, the War of Wrath, or the War of the Ring. I imagine them living to the east of the Easterlings. Like I said I have no proof on it, but I like the idea. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

04-22-2003, 12:03 PM	#15
Finrod Felagund King of Nargothrond Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada! eh? Posts: 2,002	Cirdan was there from the beginning-the revolt at least- until the grey ship. He did so much but was so little recognized. He held Narya, he stood by Gil-Galad at the Last Alliance. And he was an elf with a long beard . We need to hear more about Cirdan's life. __________________ "THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!"

04-22-2003, 01:17 PM	#16
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	HoME 12; Last Writings has some info. on the wisest being in M-E-Cirdan.

04-22-2003, 02:51 PM	#17
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	I should really get my hands on HoME __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

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