Valar: Gods or Angels? - Page 4

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-23-2003, 01:25 AM

Yeah! Listen to Rian!

Ruinel · 03-23-2003, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I think Eru IlÃºvatar is definitely the Christian God. Here's another Letters quote you may have missed:

And also in Letters, JRRT says the stories are based in this world, but in a time long ago, so that would also indicate that Eru IlÃºvatar is the Christian God. The Valar have sub-creative powers, which are vastly different from the creative powers that Eru IlÃºvatar has.

I should probably bow out of this discussion b/c I do not believe in a supreme being that created everything, although I was raised Catholic and attended a Catholic school. Whether the character Eru is the Christian God or not, I think definitely depends upon whether you believe in a god or not.

***RÃan*** · 03-23-2003, 02:14 AM

I don't think it matters if you believe in a god or not, though. I was just pointing out that from what I can tell from his letters, it appears that Tolkien intended his character of Eru IlÃºvatar to be the Christian god. For Christians, it's just kind of a special nice thing to know this. If you're not a Christian, then it doesn't really matter - Eru IlÃºvatar is just one of the many wonderful characters in the book. Does that make sense? No offense intended to your beliefs at all

- people of all beliefs can, and have, really enjoyed his writing.

Ruinel · 03-23-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I don't think it matters if you believe in a god or not, though. I was just pointing out that from what I can tell from his letters, it appears that Tolkien intended his character of Eru IlÃºvatar to be the Christian god. For Christians, it's just kind of a special nice thing to know this. If you're not a Christian, then it doesn't really matter - Eru IlÃºvatar is just one of the many wonderful characters in the book. Does that make sense? No offense intended to your beliefs at all - people of all beliefs can, and have, really enjoyed his writing.

You can not offend me, RÃ*an, I have no "belief-system". What I meant was that it is always better not to say anything to believers that would offend them if you are not one. And I'm afraid I might say the wrong thing. This is why I should bow out.

Cirdan · 03-23-2003, 01:46 PM

There is really nothing in the quote that specifies a christian god, only the monotheistic heirarchy of Tolkien's mythology. Tolkien rarely disguises his christianity, so here he is specifically, (and not allegorically;0) discussing his work. It is an extension of his faith, not a replica of it.

03-23-2003, 01:25 AM	#61
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Yeah! Listen to Rian! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-23-2003, 02:14 AM	#63
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I don't think it matters if you believe in a god or not, though. I was just pointing out that from what I can tell from his letters, it appears that Tolkien intended his character of Eru IlÃºvatar to be the Christian god. For Christians, it's just kind of a special nice thing to know this. If you're not a Christian, then it doesn't really matter - Eru IlÃºvatar is just one of the many wonderful characters in the book. Does that make sense? No offense intended to your beliefs at all - people of all beliefs can, and have, really enjoyed his writing. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

03-23-2003, 01:46 PM	#65
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	There is really nothing in the quote that specifies a christian god, only the monotheistic heirarchy of Tolkien's mythology. Tolkien rarely disguises his christianity, so here he is specifically, (and not allegorically;0) discussing his work. It is an extension of his faith, not a replica of it. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

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