Middle-earth Creation Story

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-01-2003, 12:27 PM

This has been something I have always been highly curious about and heard of things like Valar, Illuvatar and Eru. Who are these people? Are they like gods in Middle-earth or are they Istari? Or Elves? I must know. I haven't read the Silmarillion. If had I would probably know these things but I live out in the boonies where most people haven't even heard of The Lord of the Rings in the bookstores.

markedel · 03-01-2003, 02:31 PM

Well firstly you should (nay must

) read the Silmarillion to get the full story.

But in brief: The Valar are angelic beings (or spiritual powers if you like) appointed by God (Illuvatar and Eru both mean god-Iluvatar means "all-father" Eru-the one) to run Earth. Iluvatar created spirits called Maiar-the Valar are powerful Maiar, Sauron is also a Maia-albeit a "fallen" one. His old master Morgoth was once one of the Valar (there are 7) but is not counted because he went bad early on-think of him as evil personified, and Sauron was his lieutenant. The Istari are also Maiar, sent to Middle Earth as emissaries to combat Sauron.

Shadowfax · 03-01-2003, 02:34 PM

This is a great question that you have asked, and yes, the answers are in the first part of the Silmarillion. I really encourage you to get it somehow; it's an amazing book. So in answer to your question, Eru is the most powerful being (God, if you will), he created everything, and he's also called Illuvatar. The Valar are the first beings he made, they are not elves or men, I guess one way to describe would be to say they are like "angels". The Valar all 'have' Maiar, who are like their helpers, like "lower angels", and the Istari (Wizards) are Maiar who were sent to Middle Earth to help. So yeah. That's a really sketchy outline, I know; you really must read it for yourself in the Sil.

PS: if you really can't find it in a bookstore, you could ask them to order it, or go online to amazon.com and buy it. Just a thought.

[edit] argh, markedel, you beat me to it!

[/edit]

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-01-2003, 03:20 PM

Thanks for you guy's answers. They really helped.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-01-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markedel
one of the Valar (there are 7)

14, weren't there?

Radagast The Brown · 03-01-2003, 04:50 PM

yeah, there are 14. There are the greatest 7 - I think they called Aratar. Manwe, Varda, Orome, Mandos, Yavanna, Aule, Niena. Melkor was one of them too, before he became evil.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-01-2003, 05:09 PM

Nice eye there!

***Rían*** · 03-01-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by #1GaMGeeGuRL
This has been something I have always been highly curious about and heard of things like Valar, Illuvatar and Eru. Who are these people? Are they like gods in Middle-earth or are they Istari? Or Elves? I must know. I haven't read the Silmarillion. If had I would probably know these things but I live out in the boonies where most people haven't even heard of The Lord of the Rings in the bookstores.

If you go to the Silmarillion forum, we're going thru chapter by chapter. The first two chapters have lots of stuff on what you asked about. They're here:

Valaquenta

Ainulindale

Enjoy, and I hope they answer your questions!

markedel · 03-01-2003, 08:04 PM

Er yes, somehow I managed to forget half the Valar. Oh well, I guess Manwe has to doubletask.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-02-2003, 08:32 AM

Alright now I know I'm going to have to get this book myself. Its sounds very interesting and thanks to you guys I already have a fairly stable idea of how it was. This is a relief and now all I need is more information which I'll get from the book. Thanks again!

Legolas · 03-02-2003, 08:49 AM

I haven't read the Silmarillion neither, but the creation of Middle Earth is detailed in Lost Tales too, the first 3 or 4 stories. There are also many comments by Christopher Tolkien after each story, giving a good grasp of all the events and Tolkien's thought.

Andúril · 03-02-2003, 09:36 AM

Quote:

markedel:
Iluvatar created spirits called Maiar-the Valar are powerful Maiar

Markedel actually means Ainur. The Valar are the more powerful Ainur, while the Maiar are the less powerul Ainur.

Elvengirl · 03-02-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
14, weren't there?

I happen to have my book handy

The Lords of the Valar are seven: Manwe, Ulmo, Aule, Orome, Mandos, Lorien, and Tulkos.

And the Valier, the Queens of the Valar are seven also: Varda, Yavanna, Nienna, Este, Vaire, Vana, and Nessa.

Hope that helps

***Rían*** · 03-02-2003, 06:54 PM

And a further note on Ainur/Valar/Maiar - the Valar are also those that chose to be bound to the world.

Quote:

from the Sil, Ainulindalë
Thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Ilúvatar beyond the confines of the World; but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took the leave of Ilúvatar and descended into it. But this condition Ilúvatar made, or it is the necessity of their love, that their power should thenceforward be contained and bounded in the World, to be within it for ever, until it is complete, so that they are its life and it is theirs. And therefore they are named the Valar, the Powers of the World.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-06-2003, 05:01 PM

YES! I have in my possesion the most hallowed of things. I got The Silmarillion. I'm right at the part when the Elves are sectioning themselves off through breaking from the group going to Aman.

03-01-2003, 02:31 PM	#2
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Well firstly you should (nay must ) read the Silmarillion to get the full story. But in brief: The Valar are angelic beings (or spiritual powers if you like) appointed by God (Illuvatar and Eru both mean god-Iluvatar means "all-father" Eru-the one) to run Earth. Iluvatar created spirits called Maiar-the Valar are powerful Maiar, Sauron is also a Maia-albeit a "fallen" one. His old master Morgoth was once one of the Valar (there are 7) but is not counted because he went bad early on-think of him as evil personified, and Sauron was his lieutenant. The Istari are also Maiar, sent to Middle Earth as emissaries to combat Sauron. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-01-2003, 02:34 PM	#3
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	This is a great question that you have asked, and yes, the answers are in the first part of the Silmarillion. I really encourage you to get it somehow; it's an amazing book. So in answer to your question, Eru is the most powerful being (God, if you will), he created everything, and he's also called Illuvatar. The Valar are the first beings he made, they are not elves or men, I guess one way to describe would be to say they are like "angels". The Valar all 'have' Maiar, who are like their helpers, like "lower angels", and the Istari (Wizards) are Maiar who were sent to Middle Earth to help. So yeah. That's a really sketchy outline, I know; you really must read it for yourself in the Sil. PS: if you really can't find it in a bookstore, you could ask them to order it, or go online to amazon.com and buy it. Just a thought. [edit] argh, markedel, you beat me to it! [/edit] __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso) Last edited by Shadowfax : 03-01-2003 at 02:35 PM.

03-01-2003, 03:20 PM	#4
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	Thanks for you guy's answers. They really helped. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

03-01-2003, 04:50 PM	#6
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	yeah, there are 14. There are the greatest 7 - I think they called Aratar. Manwe, Varda, Orome, Mandos, Yavanna, Aule, Niena. Melkor was one of them too, before he became evil. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-01-2003, 05:09 PM	#7
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Nice eye there! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-01-2003, 12:27 PM	#1
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	Middle-earth Creation Story This has been something I have always been highly curious about and heard of things like Valar, Illuvatar and Eru. Who are these people? Are they like gods in Middle-earth or are they Istari? Or Elves? I must know. I haven't read the Silmarillion. If had I would probably know these things but I live out in the boonies where most people haven't even heard of The Lord of the Rings in the bookstores. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

03-01-2003, 08:04 PM	#9
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Er yes, somehow I managed to forget half the Valar. Oh well, I guess Manwe has to doubletask. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-02-2003, 08:32 AM	#10
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	Alright now I know I'm going to have to get this book myself. Its sounds very interesting and thanks to you guys I already have a fairly stable idea of how it was. This is a relief and now all I need is more information which I'll get from the book. Thanks again! __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

03-02-2003, 08:49 AM	#11
Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania Posts: 171	I haven't read the Silmarillion neither, but the creation of Middle Earth is detailed in Lost Tales too, the first 3 or 4 stories. There are also many comments by Christopher Tolkien after each story, giving a good grasp of all the events and Tolkien's thought. __________________ Legolas - a stupid stubborn elf

03-06-2003, 05:01 PM	#15
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	YES! I have in my possesion the most hallowed of things. I got The Silmarillion. I'm right at the part when the Elves are sectioning themselves off through breaking from the group going to Aman. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What's going on in Middle Earth?	Fimbrethil	RPG Forum	96	07-10-2003 06:28 PM
Writewraiths in Middle Earth II: The Kingdom Rebuilt	Silverstripe	RPG Forum	395	04-22-2003 10:42 AM
Plan for a Virtual Middle Earth.	congressmn	Middle Earth	61	02-01-2003 05:01 AM
Books of the Eastern part of Middle Earth....	Dúnedain	Middle Earth	8	01-10-2003 08:40 PM
The complete History of MIddle Earth	nefelim	Middle Earth	4	02-16-2001 05:38 AM