The Wolves at Caradhras

[afro-elf]

Some thoughts form elsewhere.

Any thoughts about the nature of the wolves that attacked the Fellowship soon after their attempted crossing at the Redhorn Gate?


we are specifically told that No trace of the fight remained but the charred trees and the arrows of Legolas lying on the hill-top. No blood, no severed heads, etc.

In addition; the battle took place on top of a small hill and many kills were made at close quarters by the likes of Aragorn/Boromir/Gimli. Body parts would have been strewn all around them, and since the Fellowship remained on the hill all night, they would have heard or seen something if other forces came and removed the bodies physically.

Spirits? sent by Saruman? an answerless puzzle?

[Comic Book Guy]

I am not entirely sure as I haven't checked my copy, but I believe that Gandalf calls them "agents of Sauron" or along the lines of that effect.

[Ñólendil]

Look to Gandalf's spell, afro-elf. Gandalf calls them ngaurhoth. Ngaurhoth means "Werewolves". Tolkien refers to the Wargs in one letter as "demonic". I think the evil Wargs of Eriador and Wilderland were descended from Morgoth and Sauron's Werewolves of old. Perhaps they were Maiar that Sauron and/or Morgoth trapped inside the bodies of great wolves.

[Beruthiel]

Nobody's heard of Wargs? *eyes bugging out* They are yes, fell spirits in the guise of Wolves. They disappeared because their form is only temporary.....horrible things, really. YECH!

[Ñólendil]

The Wargs in the foothills of the Misty Mountains in Wilderland and the Wargs that fought in the Battle of Five Armies did not vanish, as those in Hollin did.

[Beleg Strongbow]

hmmmm. Perhaps they were more powerful or demonic Wargs? I hesitate to label them fallen Maiar, as the Maiar usually had more devastatingly terrible power when they fell to evil (Examples: Balrog, Sauron).

[markedel]

The hobbit was not originally part of Middle Eart. Perhaps during editing Tolkien figured that the vanishing wolves would be child unfriendly.

[barrelrider110]

I just briefly skimmed over the Hobbit. No mention of wolf or warg bodies, disappearing or otherwise. Also JRRT in TH uses the terms wargs and wolves interchangeably, and describes them thusly:

the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named)

When the company finds no bodies of the slain wolves in LoTR, Gandalf states:

`It is as I feared,' These were no ordinary wolves hunting for food in the wilderness.'

They are not wolves or wargs at all. Wolves in the first age were closely allied with Morgoth, and Sauron took the shape of a wolf from time to time. It's plain that Gandalf fears that these are evil spirits in the shape of wolves sent to waylay the company. Who sent them is the better question.

[markedel]

It probably was Saruman, he had wargs in his service and knew more about the Fellowship then Sauron.

[Blackheart]

Muhahahahaaa.

Know ye not one of Lord Sauron's ancient titles?

Lord of Werewolves?

Lord of Necromancy, Lord of Sorcery, Lord of Vampires, and a few more that escape me right now.

Fell spirits in the shape of a wolf are exactly his forte.

[Agburanar]

Yes, Gandalf calls the leader a 'hound of Sauron'.

I don't really want to bitch about the film in this forum 'cos it's the wrong place but I'll just say that I disagreed with Saruman's control of the snow above Charadhras. Gimli says 'Charadhras was called cruel long before Sauron had ever been heard of' and I believe him, but Sauron could have helped it along.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by afro-elf
In addition; the battle took place on top of a small hill and many kills were made at close quarters by the likes of Aragorn/Boromir/Gimli.

Don't forget Legolas. Though his weren't all close, but mostly a little ways off considering he used arrows.

Originally posted by afro-elf
Body parts would have been strewn all around them, and since the Fellowship remained on the hill all night, they would have heard or seen something if other forces came and removed the bodies physically.

Wouldn't they (or some of them at least) slept at all during the night?

Here is the passage:

When the full light of the morning came no signs of the wolves were to be found, and they looked in vain for the bodies of the dead. No trace of the fight remained but the charred trees and the arrows of Legolas lying on the hill-top. All were undamaged save one of which only the point was left.

There's no telling what happened to clean it all up, but I'm guessing the Wargs themselves probably took away the dead bodies and body parts. I can't guess anything about the blood that was spilt, though. They were mentioned to be agents of Sauron, but I highly doubt they were just spirits.

[Blackheart]

Somehow I doubt they were just regular Wargs also.

The Wargs would have been more likely to operate in concert with uruk. Though it is of course possible that they would attack alone.

However it is unlikely that the wargs would have bothered to remove arrows from the corpses of their fallen. It is also unlikely that Wargs would care at all about the corpses of their fallen, except as perhaps an opportunistic meal.

How would a wolf extract an arrowhead from a corpse? especially the one with no shaft? The more likely explination is that the "corpses" weren't wargs, but manifestations that "faded".

[Rána Eressëa]

I tend to not think that deeply, but yes, that makes sense.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
They were mentioned to be agents of Sauron, but I highly doubt they were just spirits.

I dunno. It makes much more sense that they were fell spirits sent to waylay them. Afterall, Caradhras was used to the same end. I see BH makes a good point about arrowheads. To me, that really does suggest fell spirits.

[Rána Eressëa]

So the Fellowship members slashing these beasts up (who definitely saw them bleed and fall into pieces) were only seeing an illusion, basically, that was done with magic?

*this is an honest question*

[BeardofPants]

I really have no idea!

[Entlover]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
So the Fellowship members slashing these beasts up (who definitely saw them bleed and fall into pieces) were only seeing an illusion, basically, that was done with magic?

I would put it more that the beasts really did bleed and fall, when the bodies they had assumed were injured. But then when the Wargs had no more use for their bodies they just vanished. If they had been an illusion, their bites would have been harmless, but there's no suggestion that they were illusory or harmless.