Holy War in Pakistan

Lief Erikson · 07-19-2007, 06:55 PM

Since the Red Mosque in Pakistan was destroyed a week ago in a battle between Islamist militants and Pakistani soldiers, violence has exploded in Pakistan, particularly in the northwest. Over a hundred soldiers have been killed in a series of attacks that have been primarily suicide bombings. It's the latest expansion of the War on Terror, I guess one could say. But it is particularly worrisome that Pakistan is experiencing this growing internal unrest, seeing as it's a nuclear armed country directly adjacent to Afghanistan and Pakistan's traditional enemy India.

sisterandcousinandaunt · 07-19-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It's the latest expansion of the War on Terror, I guess one could say.

Well, one could. Or one could point out that Pakistan exists as the result of muslim extremism and has had few rest periods, in its brief history, between military dictatorships and foreign aggression and has an almost unbroken history of civil war.

Lief Erikson · 07-20-2007, 12:38 AM

I disagree with some of your facts, but I don't really feel like getting into another history debate right now, so I hope you don't mind if I just don't respond on that. The most important point is that none of what you said contradicts what I said. Extremism does exist in Pakistan and, as you point out quite correctly, it has a history there. That extremism's presence is tied to violence in Pakistan's past, I absolutely agree. Confronting it is also part of the War on Terror, as I was saying. Our claims aren't mutually exclusive.

durinsbane2244 · 07-20-2007, 01:02 AM

....isn't holy war an oxymoron?

brownjenkins · 07-20-2007, 10:25 AM

I'd say that the inflamation of extremism is a direct result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Violence breeds violence.

**Mari** · 07-20-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Violence breeds violence.

Yup, you get what you give, if someone slaps you on your right cheek, etc.

That is way too cliche...

***Rían*** · 07-20-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Violence breeds violence.

Sometimes apathy breeds violence, too ...

GrayMouser · 07-22-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I'd say that the inflamation of extremism is a direct result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Violence breeds violence.

Iraq, sure.

Afghanistan? I'd say that the violence there (other than the usual tribal violence they've been indulging in for thousands of years) is a direct result of the Russian invasion, which led to the growth of the mujahideen, which led to the warlords, which led to the Taliban, who were sheltering people who actually attacked America, and who refused to give them up.

brownjenkins · 11-15-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I'd say that the inflamation of extremism is a direct result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Violence breeds violence.

No kidding.

Falagar · 07-20-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

....isn't holy war an oxymoron?

Holiness doesn't exclude violence, it just necessitates dedication and 'religiousness'.

Gwaimir Windgem · 07-20-2007, 10:43 PM

No. Being religious and being holy are not the same thing. Holiness being compatible with war is iffy under any circumstances, but I think that these days, with the sheer destructive capacity we command, they are essentially mutually exclusive.

GrayMouser · 07-22-2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Well, one could. Or one could point out that Pakistan exists as the result of muslim extremism and has had few rest periods, in its brief history, between military dictatorships and foreign aggression and has an almost unbroken history of civil war.

Foreign aggression? Against whom?

Or do you mean Pakistan has been the aggressee?

07-19-2007, 06:55 PM	#1
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Holy War in Pakistan Since the Red Mosque in Pakistan was destroyed a week ago in a battle between Islamist militants and Pakistani soldiers, violence has exploded in Pakistan, particularly in the northwest. Over a hundred soldiers have been killed in a series of attacks that have been primarily suicide bombings. It's the latest expansion of the War on Terror, I guess one could say. But it is particularly worrisome that Pakistan is experiencing this growing internal unrest, seeing as it's a nuclear armed country directly adjacent to Afghanistan and Pakistan's traditional enemy India. __________________ If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

07-20-2007, 12:38 AM	#3
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	I disagree with some of your facts, but I don't really feel like getting into another history debate right now, so I hope you don't mind if I just don't respond on that. The most important point is that none of what you said contradicts what I said. Extremism does exist in Pakistan and, as you point out quite correctly, it has a history there. That extremism's presence is tied to violence in Pakistan's past, I absolutely agree. Confronting it is also part of the War on Terror, as I was saying. Our claims aren't mutually exclusive. __________________ If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

07-20-2007, 01:02 AM	#4
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	....isn't holy war an oxymoron? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

07-20-2007, 10:25 AM	#5
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	I'd say that the inflamation of extremism is a direct result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Violence breeds violence. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

07-20-2007, 10:43 PM	#11
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	No. Being religious and being holy are not the same thing. Holiness being compatible with war is iffy under any circumstances, but I think that these days, with the sheer destructive capacity we command, they are essentially mutually exclusive. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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