01-09-2004, 04:34 PM | #1 |
Sapling
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1
|
Heavy ROTK analysis
"Though he spent much of his post-war life railing against allegorical interpretations of his 1,000-page tome, it is impossible to separate Tolkien's battlefield from his bible of fantasy literature." MORE
Morhizm usually has pretty serious articles on film. This one is the finest on Jackson's film I've checked out so far. What does everyone think? peace, Sherrif |
01-09-2004, 06:36 PM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Lonely Mountain
Posts: 161
|
Great article! I think it's pretty much dead-on.
__________________
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs |
01-14-2004, 06:23 AM | #3 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lyonesse
Posts: 4,547
|
Hmm. I like the parallels drawn between WWI and Lord of the Rings that are made in the movie--perhaps even the implication that Jackson did this on purpose? Tolkien may have denied any allegorical or otherwise connection to the War, but it remains nonetheless, whatever Tolkien may say. In my view, at least. Anyway, that was interesting. Good article. THanks for the link.
__________________
Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
01-14-2004, 07:15 PM | #4 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Lonely Mountain
Posts: 161
|
The allegory point has been debated a lot. Tolkien always denied any delibrate ties to WWI, but there's no doubt they were connected on some level. Certainly LOTR is applicable to many other time periods, but I'm convinced Tolkien's experience in WWI shaped Middle-Earth more than he let on.
__________________
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs |
01-14-2004, 08:23 PM | #5 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
In my opinion, if Tolkien says he didn't write allegory, then he didn't. I think his life and writing were deeply influenced by his experiences in WWI. Elements of the war consequently appear subtly in Lord of the Rings, but that does not make the story an allegory. I think the author put a lot of careful thought into the article, which is well-written. However I think he's reading into Jackson's movie too much. Jackson's RotK is not that subtle, and I did not feel that he captured the sense of loss described in the acticle. His ideas about Denethor's disgusting eating reflecting sending Faramir on a suicide mission are interesting. When I saw the wine dripping down his chin, I also thought of blood.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
01-14-2004, 08:30 PM | #6 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lyonesse
Posts: 4,547
|
Hmm. . .I did not mean to imply Tolkien did write allegory--he says he didn't write it, and so he didn't. However, I think it influenced him on a level that shows in his writing, whatever his intentions may have been.
__________________
Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
01-14-2004, 08:32 PM | #7 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I misunderstood, but I see what you mean now.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
01-15-2004, 01:48 AM | #8 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
As for Gollum - he had to some how explain that Gollum was good in the beginning. Which actually he was never REALLY good. Even before the Ring he wasn't very well liked. As for Tolkien and allegory - I don't really believe what Tolkien said - there is allegory. I just think, as I have posted many times before - he just didn't want to explain what he meant by everything and wanted people to take away from it what they wanted. if he said it was an allegory - everyone would be asking him "what does this mean - what does that mean?" Take the scouring of the shire and it's destruction. Tolkien was very much against indutrialization and the bulldozing of the environment - you mean to tell me there isn't a statement in there about that? Everyone - no matter what peopel write about - take things from their personal experience. Ideas don't just appear out of no where - there is always an underlying thought or experience that helps give fruit to the idea. Try writing something that is void of any personal experience, emotion and where characters are not based on anyone you have met or known. I think it's pretty impossible. BTW - I don't know whether he purposely wrote an allegory or not. Lord of the Rings may not be a full allegory - but it is obvious that at least subconsciously some parts are allegorical, whether he intended it or not.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-15-2004 at 01:53 AM. |
||
01-15-2004, 01:57 AM | #9 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Quote:
According to my dictionary, an allegory is: Narrative description of a subject under quise of another sugestively similar; emblem. I do think Tolkien had a message, and that he drew on his own experiences and people he knew, but not that he wrote an allegory.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
01-15-2004, 02:19 AM | #10 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I guess this is slightly off topic.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-15-2004 at 02:20 AM. |
|||||||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
ROTK : EE version Mooter reviews! | Rían | Lord of the Rings Movies | 100 | 02-13-2006 11:59 AM |
LOTR ROTK Premier in Houston | Wally | Lord of the Rings Movies | 0 | 01-20-2005 01:26 PM |
The ROTK 5-Disc Platinum Series freebies (what to do, what to do...) | Arathorn | Lord of the Rings Movies | 15 | 01-03-2005 02:00 AM |
ROTK Trivia | Indril Anarion | Lord of the Rings Books | 986 | 11-22-2004 01:43 PM |
Character Analysis: Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin | Telcontar_Dunedain | Lord of the Rings Books | 1 | 09-19-2004 06:56 AM |