Changed My Mind: Jackson's LotR As Bad As DeLaurentis' DUNE

[bropous]

Boy, do I ever have egg on my face.

And Man, was I ever wrong. By a LONG shot. False hopes.

When I saw the first film, I swallowed my dissention, overwhelmed by the phenomenon of seeing my favorite work of literature brought to the screen. I saw it sixteen times in the theater, and of course, thought the rest of the films would redeem the differences I had with how the story was distorted.

I bought the party line, that there were a few changes, but hey, Jackson raised the money, he made the movie, it was his right to do the film as he wanted. Fine. I even went so far as to champion Jackson's cause on the Moot, being one of the prime apologists and railing against the "purists" who assailed Jackson's efforts. But it was slowly sinking in that I was on the wrong track, as far off track as Jackson. But I hadn't yet become able to admit the error. I held on for one more film.

Then Two Towers came out. Even MORE variance from the storyline, totally unbalanced retelling of this masterwork of English literature, but hey, I liked what I saw, for the most part, and glossed over the howling insult the film ended up being towards the story's creator. I saw it TWICE in the theater. That's it. Couldn't drag myself into the theater again to relive that sad caricature of the second book of the trilogy. So I set my sights on the third film, but daily was realizing I had been standing, all along, on the wrong side of the issue.

And so, here we go. We go back to the theater, only to witness what will be the most egregious facet of Jackson's b*stardization of this masterwork, a third film bearing little or no resemblance to the multilayered, heavily entertwined story that Tolkien worked so hard for so many years on.

Frankly, I take back all the good things said about the three films here and now. Now that the full scope of Jackson's rape of this masterpiece can be reviewed, I relegate this three-film set to the dusty bookshelf with the Rankin-Bass version of the Hobbit and Return of the King, and that Bakshi stab at the first half of Lord of the Rings. ALL fell far short of bringing Tolkien's world to view. Jackson's was the biggest disappointment of all: He actually had the money and the backing to do it RIGHT, and he FAILED MISERABLY, FOR NO FARKING REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again, I'll be waiting for the REAL version of these books to come to the visual media. Will it be another 26-year wait?

Wrapping up, here is the essential question on the final product:

Is Jackson's Lord of the Rings as bad an attempt to bring a great work of sci-fi/fantasy genre to the screen as was Dino deLaurentis' abomination of Dune?

My echoing, resounding answer: YES!!!!!!!!!!!

[jerseydevil]

I'm just glad after all these years Bropous - you have come onto my side. You have been saved by the dark power that is Jackson - his lies and deceit and his propaganda of "I am making this movie as a fan for the fans of Lord of the Rings" We all know what lies these were now. I hoped before the movies came out - but from the first opening credits of FotR - I saw that he failed. And I saw it was only going to get worse. I was one of the few who spoke out against them, BoP was another.

[Cirdan]

Wow, is it BB's birthday already?

All I remember about Dune was that it was very long and dull. Tell you what, I'll rent it and let you know.

I must admit that while FotR was pretty good as long as it was, I thought TTT was ponderous at times. I got battle fatigue and this is from someone who enjoyed Black Hawk Down. I liked all of the adapted material, but the added stuff was, well just not good. THe humor was sophmoric (yes, Gimli IS short, and Eowyn can't cook, etc). Still I find it a stretch to reject the work out of hand. I think it reflects the chaotic approach to the project, with completeing goals (action vs true adaptation, true to character vs popularized characters *hemarwenhem*)

The fact that they wanted to put Arwen at Helm's Deep but then yanked the idea presumably due to tolkienite sentiments shows a divided conscience (or concensus).

BoP would be a good judge of this one as she is another Dune fan as well.

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by bropous
Wrapping up, here is the essential question on the final product:

Is Jackson's Lord of the Rings as bad an attempt to bring a great work of sci-fi/fantasy genre to the screen as was Dino deLaurentis' abomination of Dune?

My echoing, resounding answer: YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes one can be blinded by rose colored glasses.

I think PJ's version of LOTR can be summed as follows: It is similar to a food that starts off sweet in the mouth, but leaves you with a bitter after taste.

As good as the Scenery, Wardrobe, Music, and actors (for the most part) were, there is enough not right (for me anyway) to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
(Flight to the Ford, Council of Elrond, the Ents, Merry& Pippin, Bree, Osgiliath side trip, Frodo & Sam falling @ the Black Gate, Dwarf Jokes, Possession/exorcism of Theoden, etc.)

The movie had the potential to be much better than it was.
Could it have been worse? Yes. But as bropous stated

He actually had the money and the backing to do it RIGHT, and he FAILED MISERABLY, FOR NO FARKING REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Dino deLaurentis' abomination of Dune?" is that the version with Patrick Stewart (c. 1984) or the recent miniseries from Sci-Fi channel?

I have read the Book, but I never cared much for Dune. The book had more detail (in some cases more than I cared for: the dessert suits that they wore). Interesting yes, but not enough to read again and again like LOTR or some other novels.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by mithrand1r

"Dino deLaurentis' abomination of Dune?" is that the version with Patrick Stewart (c. 1984) or the recent miniseries from Sci-Fi channel?

I have read the Book, but I never cared much for Dune. The book had more detail (in some cases more than I cared for: the dessert suits that they wore). Interesting yes, but not enough to read again and again like LOTR or some other novels.

I felt the same way about Dune. As for the movie - it's the 1984 Bropous is talking about. That one I also hated and dispised. The Sci-Fi miniseries one - I have on DVD and is really good.

[bropous]

mithrand1r, I really like your line:

"I think PJ's version of LOTR can be summed as follows: It is similar to a food that starts of sweet in the mouth, but leaves you with a bitter after taste."

Succint, exacting, and dead-on accurate.

I mean, there were some god things about the films, I don't dismiss them entirely, but just like the 1984 Dune, the deviations from the books were unnecessary, took away from the original strength of the carefully-crafted source material, and distorted and re-made characters to make them nearly unrecognizable to the people who read the original works. All was done in a needless attempt to cast a wider net for the largest number of moviegoers.

I do think it is a good thing that the films will be spurring a few folks out there to explore the REAL Lord of the Rings.

In restrospect, I probably would go back and erase probably 75% of my prior posts knowing what I know now, but hey, that's just like life. We all misjudge things along the way, sometimes we get a few things right. It's just important to admit it when you realize you were wrong.

Again, I voice the hope that someone, someday, will get it "right".

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by bropous
In restrospect, I probably would go back and erase probably 75% of my prior posts knowing what I know now, but hey, that's just like life. We all misjudge things along the way, sometimes we get a few things right. It's just important to admit it when you realize you were wrong.

Again, I voice the hope that someone, someday, will get it "right".

I hope you really don't mean to go in an delete your old posts. It's like attempting to erase history because you don't like it (this might explain why my mother always called me a pack rat), Anyway - you shouldn't change any of your posts - even if you have changed your feelings toward Jackson.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

On the bright side, PJs LOTR did well on the clothes and equipment, scenery, music/singing, majority of the actors, etc. (call it the technical side). Sort of like a general manager getting the talent for a good team together. Now what's needed is a "coach" to make it all work properly.

On balance, and with its obvious faults, I thought FOTR was okay. Where PJ lost me was the Two Towers in general and numerous pointless bits (repeated dwarf tossing yuks [I have this picture of Legolas and Gimli arriving at Tol Eressea and Legolas throwing him onto the beach, with elves and maiar falling down laughing], exorcism, ents not voting to attack Isengard, &&&&&). Within the movie confines, TT could have been on a relative quality par with FOTR. What's needed is a director who will have sufficient resources and some of Bakshi's sympathy for LOTR structure, with, of course, necessary cinematic adaptations.

[bropous]

Nopers, jd, I won't go back and erase the posts, because I share your opinion of "erasing history because [you] don't like it". All the posts are still there, unedited. Full evolution of opinion survives, nothing has been sanitized.

Going back and erasing my mistakes of judgement would be as revisionist as Jackson. I may be a fool (quite often), but I'm not (too) much a hypocrite.

No, I let the mistaken rantings of the past stand, most of all as an example of how opinions can change over time with the addition of new data.

We're all human. We all make mistakes. Some of us (finger pointing at self) make 'em more often, and in a more publicized form, than do some.

Maybe I should change my signature line to:

"I keep scrubbing and scrubbing, but the egg ain't coming off!"

[Black Breathalizer]

bropous, you made the mistake of allowing rumors and spoilers to color your view of ROTK before you even had a chance to see it for yourself. But frankly, you never struck me as much of a fan of the films so your so-called change of heart isn't all that earth shattering.

I suspect we'll have a lot of people here eating crow when ROTK comes out and they discover the new film captures their imagination in a very emotional way.

But no one, be they LOTR film fan or foe, knows for sure how they'll feel until they see it. I admit to having some queasy feelings myself about a couple of the spoilers I've heard about. But I am not going to rail against a film I haven't even seen yet. The same reports that talk about the book deviations also say it is a brilliant, best picture Oscar-worthy film.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I suspect we'll have a lot of people here eating crow when ROTK comes out and they discover the new film captures their imagination in a very emotional way.

You said the same about TTT, but suspect away if you like.

Bropous- welcome to the abode of Those Who See The Light!

(Before BB gets annoyed about that line, I suppose I should mention that I am parodying his ridiculous titles of PJ-worshippers.)

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
You said the same about TTT, but suspect away if you like.
Bropous- welcome to the abode of Those Who See The Light!
(Before BB gets annoyed about that line, I suppose I should mention that I am parodying his ridiculous titles of PJ-worshippers.)

Actually, I'm not annoyed. I realize my presence here is like being a shrink in some rehab center. I understand when I enter these walls I'm not dealing with normal fans. If the attitudes expressed here by you misguided types were the norm, then these films wouldn't be among the highest grossing and most critically acclaimed movies of all time.

But you are entitled to your opinions, right along with the "Elvis Lives" crowd and the Flat Earthers.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Actually, I'm not annoyed. I realize my presence here is like being a shrink in some rehab center. I understand when I enter these walls I'm not dealing with normal fans. If the attitudes expressed here by you misguided types were the norm, then these films wouldn't be among the highest grossing and most critically acclaimed movies of all time.

But you are entitled to your opinions, right along with the "Elvis Lives" crowd and the Flat Earthers.

Actually it is you who needs therapy. YOu should have understoof by now that a high grossing film is NOT necessarily a GOOD film. As for been critically acclaimed - they are critically acclaimed as ACTION movies and definitely NOT critically acclaimed movies of ALL TIME.

Why don't you go and read the book already instead of spouting off constantly about how much better the films are.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Actually, I'm not annoyed. I realize my presence here is like being a shrink in some rehab center. I understand when I enter these walls I'm not dealing with normal fans. If the attitudes expressed here by you misguided types were the norm, then these films wouldn't be among the highest grossing and most critically acclaimed movies of all time.

But you are entitled to your opinions, right along with the "Elvis Lives" crowd and the Flat Earthers.

I almost consider your post to be a very broad flame. You are correct when you say you are not dealing with normal fans, meaning people who are not fans of the movies. You are dealing with a large amount of Tolkien fans, not PJ fans. So, you think Tolkien fans are in need of rehab, and are misguided? The movies are not where the facts of LotRs are, but in the books.

I don't think that Elvis lives, but I do know that through LotRs and many other wonderful books, Tolkien sure does.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I almost consider your post to be a very broad flame. You are correct when you say you are not dealing with normal fans, meaning people who are not fans of the movies. You are dealing with a large amount of Tolkien fans, not PJ fans. So, you think Tolkien fans are in need of rehab, and are misguided? The movies are not where the facts of LotRs are, but in the books.

I don't think that Elvis lives, but I do know that through LotRs and many other wonderful books, Tolkien sure does.

Isn't this---> the symbol for "this...is...a...joke."???? Sheeeesh. Lighten up, people.

In the immortal words of Gimli, "I've seen more cheer in a graveyard."

[Sister Golden Hair]

In the immortal words of Gimli, "I've seen more cheer in a graveyard."

I don't remember Gimli saying that. What chapter was that in?

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

I would politely disagree with the movie bashers.

I have my issues...especially with TTT, but on the other hand, I view these movies as the greatest gift that I, as a Tolkien fan could have hoped for. The movies are better than I ever dreamed they could be.

These last few years have been awesome for me, as a fan of the books. I still love the books the most, especially the Sil, but the movies have a special place in my heart as well.

You have to view them for what they are - just an interpretation. For me, seeing Gandalf so beautifully played, the Balrog, and just feeling the real essence of Middle-Earth has been an incredible rush.

I am extremely grateful.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Balrog_of_Morgoth
You have to view them for what they are - just an interpretation. For me, seeing Gandalf so beautifully played, the Balrog, and just feeling the real essence of Middle-Earth has been an incredible rush.

The problem is - I do see them for what they are - typical dumbed down hollywood action flicks. The scenary was cool and I think that captured Middle Earth - but not much else was captured for me.

[justaregularguy]

Originally posted by Balrog_of_Morgoth
I would politely disagree with the movie bashers.

I have my issues...especially with TTT, but on the other hand, I view these movies as the greatest gift that I, as a Tolkien fan could have hoped for. The movies are better than I ever dreamed they could be.

These last few years have been awesome for me, as a fan of the books. I still love the books the most, especially the Sil, but the movies have a special place in my heart as well.

You have to view them for what they are - just an interpretation. For me, seeing Gandalf so beautifully played, the Balrog, and just feeling the real essence of Middle-Earth has been an incredible rush.

I am extremely grateful.

"

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by justaregularguy
"

Huh?