Book deviations and film spoilers

Black Breathalizer · 12-02-2003, 02:20 PM

It is impossible for me not to read spoilers. I have no will power and can't wait to discover anything new about the Return of the King film. But I will admit that the news that...

Frodo sends Sam away when they reach Shelob's lair

...has me more than a little concerned.

I was cool with the news about Arwen and the flight to the ford, I was okay with the news that Boromir has a moment with the ring, I was fine with the wizard's dual....but this news has given me a queazy feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I need to keep repeating to myself what I've told many of you about those other changes: Don't get worked up about what you've heard until you actually SEE how it is handled. I will follow my advice but I will admit that this is one bit of news that I'm a little worried about. The one thing that helps is that all of the early reviews are extremely positive.

Artanis · 12-02-2003, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I need to keep repeating to myself what I've told many of you about those other changes: Don't get worked up about what you've heard until you actually SEE how it is handled.

That is something I agree with. The reviews are overall positive, and I'm sure there will be many goodies in the movie and lot of things to cheer about. But still I'm upset now about some of the spoilers I've read, especially on some of the scenes that are cut out from the movie (but hopefully they'll be there in EE), and regardless how great the film may be otherwise, I will miss those parts.

cassiopeia · 12-02-2003, 09:40 PM

Frodo sending Sam away concerns me the most as well. Perhaps it may work on the screen -- I don't know, although the reviews are positive so far. But this is so unlike Tolkien's Frodo -- who loved Sam and would never send him away to most likely die at the hands of orcs or some other creature. At this stage of the quest -- at Cirith Ungol -- Frodo has not been so taken by the Ring that he can not reason properly. I can't see how he can trust Gollum more than Sam. (Gollum apparently frames Sam by saying he is stealing lembas.) Of course this is set up in TTT by Sam and Frodo 'fighting', but Frodo sending Sam away, to me, seems to have taken their friendship to something Tolkien never wrote.

jerseydevil · 12-03-2003, 01:44 AM

Cass - it's just the type of stuff i expect from Jackson. He can't have Frodo and Sam be friends - as I have said since FotR - he LOVES conflict. Jackson will put in conflict when there is absolutely no conflict.

hectorberlioz · 12-03-2003, 02:10 AM

this is outrageous!
lotr is turning into a soap opera!
what next? gollum becomes frodo's new best friend?(or did that already happen?)

thranduil · 12-03-2003, 02:15 AM

I think it is tragic, but its kinda funny.

cmon over stealing lembas?

Ha it makes me laugh, I think it will cheesy. But I'll shut up cuz I can't say and I might actually like it. But I'll find out in fourteen days. No matter.

hectorberlioz · 12-03-2003, 02:31 AM

i mean

lembas?

.
in the books, J.R.R.T. hardly mentions food as a major factor in the quest...,but of course this is jackson directing.....

thranduil · 12-03-2003, 02:38 AM

this is really no suprise. I mean Frodo first told Sam to not come with him ( i know book FOTR) then argued with Sam in TT, next he about killed Sam with Sting. So the way PJ has built this up one could almost expect Frodo to do something unrational and unrealistic like this. But despite everything I'm kinda excited to see how this scene turns out.

hectorberlioz · 12-03-2003, 02:41 AM

me too.
i'm also excite about using sting against pj when i see how bad the scene really is....

thranduil · 12-03-2003, 02:46 AM

didn't you notice PJ foreshadowing to this, TT "I don't usually mind to foreign food, but this elvish stuff isn't bad" -Sam (something to those lines.) So Frodo is even starting to suspect this back in TT.

Dúnedain · 12-03-2003, 03:44 AM

Actually it's more than lembas,

Frodo is tricked into believing that Sam is trying to take the ring for himself

Artanis · 12-03-2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Actually it's more than lembas,

Frodo is tricked into believing that Sam is trying to take the ring for himself

Well if that is the case it is much more acceptable. It would be in character, and true to the story. Where did you get that information from?

Dúnedain · 12-03-2003, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Well if that is the case it is much more acceptable. It would be in character, and true to the story. Where did you get that information from?

I read it on another forum. A couple people said that's what happened, as they got to see the movie already as they have access to pre-screen movies before they come out...

Black Breathalizer · 12-03-2003, 09:30 AM

If the scene plays out dramatically AND stays true to the characters, I'll be fine with it.

My first reaction was, "whoa...say WHAT!?!?!?" but to be fair, if I had heard a TTT spoiler that Arwen gets pissed off with Aragorn because he tries to give her back the Elvenstar I would have had the same "what the f..." reaction. However, that scene between the two worked incredibly well and gave viewers a glimpse at Arwen's strength and class.

Katie of the Golden Wood · 12-05-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Actually it's more than lembas,

Frodo is tricked into believing that Sam is trying to take the ring for himself

I was worried about this at first...but I think it will work out great if done correctly. It will portray how the Ring is taking a hold of Frodo and also throw some interesting parallels out to the audience of how Frodo is slowly becoming Gollum...

Katie

Ruinel · 12-05-2003, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
It is impossible for me not to read spoilers. I have no will power and can't wait to discover anything new about the Return of the King film. But I will admit that the news that...

Frodo sends Sam away when they reach Shelob's lair

...has me more than a little concerned.

I was cool with the news about Arwen and the flight to the ford, I was okay with the news that Boromir has a moment with the ring, I was fine with the wizard's dual....but this news has given me a queazy feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I need to keep repeating to myself what I've told many of you about those other changes: Don't get worked up about what you've heard until you actually SEE how it is handled. I will follow my advice but I will admit that this is one bit of news that I'm a little worried about. The one thing that helps is that all of the early reviews are extremely positive.

You are a "little concerned"? WT... we've been trying to tell you all along that PJ is deviating more and more from the book. What was once a great literary work is ruined in the minds of many who will not read the books because they've seen the movie. You haven't listened to anything we've said, turning your simple mind off and turning a pitiful blind eye to the heinous mutilations to the beautiful story that our beloved JRRT wrote for us. You've stood at your demonic altar to PJ, sacrificing goat after goat, hastily drinking the ritual chalise bearing the blood of the innocent reader, performing hideous satanic rituals (some of which I can't mention on a PG-13 thread, but involve unborn human fetus') to your lord and master, the most evil and sinister PJ.

And really... now you say you are "concerned".

How about you pull your head out of your @$$ for a change and wise up a bit.

**Nurvingiel** · 12-06-2003, 04:17 AM

That particular deviation that may or may not occur is so incredibly stupid I can't believe it will happen. I've enjoyed FotR and TTT, despite a few scenes that I found silly or pointless. If this rumour is true about RotK, it's all over. I would no longer be a fan of the movies.

That being said, I will look forward to RotK, and wait until I've seen it before I pass judgement.

So BB, are you saying that... Jackson's adaptation isn't perfect?

cassiopeia · 12-06-2003, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
That particular deviation that may or may not occur is so incredibly stupid I can't believe it will happen. I've enjoyed FotR and TTT, despite a few scenes that I found silly or pointless. If this rumour is true about RotK, it's all over. I would no longer be a fan of the movies.

If you're talking about

Frodo sending Sam away

I assure you it does happen. And from what I've heard, it's not a good scene at all.

Ruinel · 12-06-2003, 01:07 PM

The point of making the movies was to bring the stories that JRRT wrote to the big screen. It was NOT to use the character names, place names and title of the 3 stories to big screen and deviate so much from the story that it no longer resembles what JRRT's envisioned. I find PJ's deviations from each story FotR, TTT and now finally (the worst of the 3 movies, I'm quite sure) RotK to be a mockery. I liken it to Morgoth's making of the Orcs in Middle Earth.

Quote:

...and thus Jackson make the hideous movie trilogy LotR in envy and mockery of JRRT.

Just a side note to SGH: did the "Jackson is a hack" thread get closed because of the spamming? Or because it was dissent about the movie maker being a "genius".

If so, will all movies threads that assert the disappointment with the movies be closed?

***Valandil*** · 12-06-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel

Just a side note to SGH: did the "Jackson is a hack" thread get closed because of the spamming? Or because it was dissent about the movie maker being a "genius". If so, will all movies threads that assert the disappointment with the movies be closed?

C'mon Ruinel... in all fairness, don't you think that even the premise of that thread, and the very TITLE, were inflammatory? That wasn't about discussion, it was picking a fight.

Things need to be worded much more differently than that to be considered civil discussion.

12-03-2003, 01:44 AM	#4
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Cass - it's just the type of stuff i expect from Jackson. He can't have Frodo and Sam be friends - as I have said since FotR - he LOVES conflict. Jackson will put in conflict when there is absolutely no conflict. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

12-03-2003, 02:10 AM	#5
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	this is outrageous! lotr is turning into a soap opera! what next? gollum becomes frodo's new best friend?(or did that already happen?) __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-03-2003, 02:41 AM	#9
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	me too. i'm also excite about using sting against pj when i see how bad the scene really is.... __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-03-2003, 02:38 AM	#8
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	this is really no suprise. I mean Frodo first told Sam to not come with him ( i know book FOTR) then argued with Sam in TT, next he about killed Sam with Sting. So the way PJ has built this up one could almost expect Frodo to do something unrational and unrealistic like this. But despite everything I'm kinda excited to see how this scene turns out.

12-03-2003, 02:46 AM	#10
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	didn't you notice PJ foreshadowing to this, TT "I don't usually mind to foreign food, but this elvish stuff isn't bad" -Sam (something to those lines.) So Frodo is even starting to suspect this back in TT.

12-03-2003, 09:30 AM	#14
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	If the scene plays out dramatically AND stays true to the characters, I'll be fine with it. My first reaction was, "whoa...say WHAT!?!?!?" but to be fair, if I had heard a TTT spoiler that Arwen gets pissed off with Aragorn because he tries to give her back the Elvenstar I would have had the same "what the f..." reaction. However, that scene between the two worked incredibly well and gave viewers a glimpse at Arwen's strength and class.