Opinions for what book(s) to get next...

Dúnedain · 11-10-2003, 04:53 PM

Ok, I am just looking for some book opinions to figure out what I should get next.

I currently own:

The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
The Silmarillion
Unfinished Tales

So, where should I go from here? Should I go with the HoME series, Letters, or what?

I am currently leaning towards the HoME series, but I am not sure.

***Valandil*** · 11-10-2003, 05:01 PM

I guess at this point, you've got the basics covered and it becomes "interest-driven". Kinda like you just got your bachelor's degree - and now, welcome to grad school and thesis research!

I only recently (this past spring) read "Unfinished Tales". I went to the "Letters" next - and I recently got "Peoples of Middle-Earth" - and have mostly read the sections of highest interest.

I had previously read Tolkien's biography... that may be another good option.

Cheers!

Dúnedain · 11-10-2003, 05:04 PM

Yeah I hear ya, I was just looking at the books that are included in the HoME series. It appears that from their titles I can read them out of order and won't suffer from missing something as I would if I were to read LotR's out of order, right?

***Valandil*** · 11-10-2003, 05:06 PM

I think (hope) that's right. PoME is the 12th of 12.

OK... smarter people... help us out here!!

Elf Girl · 11-10-2003, 05:19 PM

I'd go with the Letters, or if you're a poetry type the Lays of Beleriand (HoME 3) is nice...

brownjenkins · 11-10-2003, 05:47 PM

the books of lost tales 1&2 wouldn't be bad to read while the silmarillion is still fresh in your mind... both are fairly short and give an excellent view on how tolkien's ideas changed and developed over the years

cassiopeia · 11-10-2003, 08:43 PM

I would say the Letters next. As for which HoME books, I suppose it depends whether you like the Silmarillion or the LOTR better. If you like the LOTR, The History of Middle-earth books are excellent; or for more information about Elves and the Valar The Book of Lost Tales, parts 1 and 2 are interesting reads. PoME's good too; lots of information on the different races, and a bit of the LOTR sequel Tolkien started.

Ulmo · 11-10-2003, 10:14 PM

In (my) order of most useful/interesting (generally) - Letters, 10-12, 4-5, 1-2, 3, 6-9.

Keith K · 11-11-2003, 12:41 AM

My advice would be to eschew all of the before mentioned books and invest your money in The Atlas of Middle Earth. I cannot recall the author/geographer's name but most bookstores carry it. In it you will discover many items of interest which will help you to better visualize the events in the books. After that I would recommend the HoME series if you want to delve deeper into Tolkien. They are very informative but oftentimes come out a bit "over the top" and somewhat incoherent. (That is to be expected since they represent a vast, and ever evolving subject matter). As to the order, I think Cassiopeia offers good advice. For myself, I read each one in the order in which it was published and at the time of publication. While not perfect, there is a method to HoME.

zinnite · 11-11-2003, 01:01 AM

Karen Wynn Fonstad is the author/cartographer behind the Atlas of ME. I highly suggest it, as it is my favorite non-Tolkien Middle earth book (of course, I am a bit biased in favor of it since one of my degees is in geography

). Anyway, it's pretty awesome.

Also the Book of Lost Tales 1 & 2 is a good read, and pretty "easy" compared to some of the other stuff.

Sheeana · 11-11-2003, 01:16 AM

Yeah, the atlas is good, but it's more of reference, than reading material... so I'd go with Letters. Read Letters, and THEN start on HoME. The latter HoMEs are generally considered in some respects to be more canon than the Sil, so that's probably your next port of call. Unless you want to do how Tolkien crafted his world, in which case, you'll want to read them in order...

Keith K · 11-11-2003, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheeana
Yeah, the atlas is good, but it's more of reference, than reading material...

The more tools employed, the deeper the understanding...

Dúnedain · 11-11-2003, 03:43 AM

I think I may just pick up the Atlas cuz I know everytime I read LotR's I always find myself flipping to the maps

Elf Girl · 11-11-2003, 09:50 AM

My first HoME book was Morgoth's Ring... I just got it for Laws and Customs, which was good, but then I was stranded in some remote vacation spot with it and read the rest. I really liked it, but I'm not sure I would recommend it for the first HoME book. It's a difficult read, and kind of off-putting.

Attalus · 11-11-2003, 03:23 PM

I read HoME in the order that they were published. It really does help, as there are back-references. That said, I would recommend Tom Shippey's two books on JRRT, The Road to Middle-Earth and J.R.R. Tolkien: The Author of the Century. They are quite insightful, and are by Tolkien's successor in one of the Philology chairs that he held. Also, as others have posted, Carpenter's and Fonstead's books. If you can get it, either Tree and Leaf and Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics both have the crucial and influential essay "On Fairy-Stories," which is the best place that JRRT explained his thoughts about fantasy, bar the Letters.

Melko Belcha · 11-11-2003, 03:48 PM

I always read stuff in published order, and I advise reading the HoME in that order. Every book gives referrences to a book that came before it, so as not to get confused or miss something I say read them in order.

Between Letters and HoME, I would read Letters after the HoME or after Vol. 11, that way you have an idea of where Tolkien is at in his writtings that he talks about in his letters.

***Valandil*** · 11-13-2003, 10:00 AM

If you haven't bought something yet, here's another suggestion:

I found the Entmoot site from another - a bunch of articles at a place called Suite 101. Here's a link:

http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/tolkien/1-20

There are almost 140 essays - the first 130 or so written by a guy named Michael Martinez, who seems to know his stuff (not to slam the newer author, who is still "finding his voice" I think). All kinds of topics, so you can look around and get all kinds of info and opinion. Plus, the benefit of zero financial outlay...

Gwaimir Windgem · 11-13-2003, 02:05 PM

I'm gonna go with the crowd and say: Get Letters. It's a spectacular insight into the man behind the myth, and the making of the myth itself.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-13-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
If you haven't bought something yet, here's another suggestion:

I found the Entmoot site from another - a bunch of articles at a place called Suite 101. Here's a link:

http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/tolkien/1-20

There are almost 140 essays - the first 130 or so written by a guy named Michael Martinez, who seems to know his stuff (not to slam the newer author, who is still "finding his voice" I think). All kinds of topics, so you can look around and get all kinds of info and opinion. Plus, the benefit of zero financial outlay...

Yep, Michael Martinez is a member of Entmoot. He also has a site called Xenite.org- SF-Fandom with some great forums where I moderate. Btw, MM no longer posts his essays at Suite 101. He posted the link here at Entmoot where he has them now. I will try to find it and come back and edit this post.

EDITED- I don't have the link, but it is MERP.COM

Dúnedain · 11-13-2003, 10:06 PM

I think I am going to forego "Letters" until I read all of his works, especially the one's that interest me the most. I think I am gonna get that Map book and get the first few from HoME and go on through the HoME series

Thanks for the insight everyone :P

P.S. Good to see ya SGH

11-10-2003, 04:53 PM	#1
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Opinions for what book(s) to get next... Ok, I am just looking for some book opinions to figure out what I should get next. I currently own: The Hobbit The Lord of the Rings The Silmarillion Unfinished Tales So, where should I go from here? Should I go with the HoME series, Letters, or what? I am currently leaning towards the HoME series, but I am not sure. __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

11-10-2003, 05:04 PM	#3
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Yeah I hear ya, I was just looking at the books that are included in the HoME series. It appears that from their titles I can read them out of order and won't suffer from missing something as I would if I were to read LotR's out of order, right? __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

11-10-2003, 05:19 PM	#5
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I'd go with the Letters, or if you're a poetry type the Lays of Beleriand (HoME 3) is nice... __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

11-10-2003, 08:43 PM	#7
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I would say the Letters next. As for which HoME books, I suppose it depends whether you like the Silmarillion or the LOTR better. If you like the LOTR, The History of Middle-earth books are excellent; or for more information about Elves and the Valar The Book of Lost Tales, parts 1 and 2 are interesting reads. PoME's good too; lots of information on the different races, and a bit of the LOTR sequel Tolkien started. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

11-10-2003, 10:14 PM	#8
Ulmo Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 76	In (my) order of most useful/interesting (generally) - Letters, 10-12, 4-5, 1-2, 3, 6-9. __________________ 'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

11-10-2003, 05:01 PM	#2
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	I guess at this point, you've got the basics covered and it becomes "interest-driven". Kinda like you just got your bachelor's degree - and now, welcome to grad school and thesis research! I only recently (this past spring) read "Unfinished Tales". I went to the "Letters" next - and I recently got "Peoples of Middle-Earth" - and have mostly read the sections of highest interest. I had previously read Tolkien's biography... that may be another good option. Cheers!

11-10-2003, 05:06 PM	#4
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	I think (hope) that's right. PoME is the 12th of 12. OK... smarter people... help us out here!!

11-10-2003, 05:47 PM	#6
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	the books of lost tales 1&2 wouldn't be bad to read while the silmarillion is still fresh in your mind... both are fairly short and give an excellent view on how tolkien's ideas changed and developed over the years

11-11-2003, 12:41 AM	#9
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	My advice would be to eschew all of the before mentioned books and invest your money in The Atlas of Middle Earth. I cannot recall the author/geographer's name but most bookstores carry it. In it you will discover many items of interest which will help you to better visualize the events in the books. After that I would recommend the HoME series if you want to delve deeper into Tolkien. They are very informative but oftentimes come out a bit "over the top" and somewhat incoherent. (That is to be expected since they represent a vast, and ever evolving subject matter). As to the order, I think Cassiopeia offers good advice. For myself, I read each one in the order in which it was published and at the time of publication. While not perfect, there is a method to HoME.

11-11-2003, 01:01 AM	#10
zinnite Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA Posts: 195	Karen Wynn Fonstad is the author/cartographer behind the Atlas of ME. I highly suggest it, as it is my favorite non-Tolkien Middle earth book (of course, I am a bit biased in favor of it since one of my degees is in geography ). Anyway, it's pretty awesome. Also the Book of Lost Tales 1 & 2 is a good read, and pretty "easy" compared to some of the other stuff.

11-11-2003, 01:16 AM	#11
Sheeana Lord of the Pants Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,382	Yeah, the atlas is good, but it's more of reference, than reading material... so I'd go with Letters. Read Letters, and THEN start on HoME. The latter HoMEs are generally considered in some respects to be more canon than the Sil, so that's probably your next port of call. Unless you want to do how Tolkien crafted his world, in which case, you'll want to read them in order... Last edited by Sheeana : 11-11-2003 at 01:18 AM.

11-11-2003, 03:43 AM	#13
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	I think I may just pick up the Atlas cuz I know everytime I read LotR's I always find myself flipping to the maps __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

11-11-2003, 09:50 AM	#14
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	My first HoME book was Morgoth's Ring... I just got it for Laws and Customs, which was good, but then I was stranded in some remote vacation spot with it and read the rest. I really liked it, but I'm not sure I would recommend it for the first HoME book. It's a difficult read, and kind of off-putting. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

11-11-2003, 03:23 PM	#15
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	I read HoME in the order that they were published. It really does help, as there are back-references. That said, I would recommend Tom Shippey's two books on JRRT, The Road to Middle-Earth and J.R.R. Tolkien: The Author of the Century. They are quite insightful, and are by Tolkien's successor in one of the Philology chairs that he held. Also, as others have posted, Carpenter's and Fonstead's books. If you can get it, either Tree and Leaf and Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics both have the crucial and influential essay "On Fairy-Stories," which is the best place that JRRT explained his thoughts about fantasy, bar the Letters. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. Last edited by Attalus : 11-11-2003 at 03:26 PM.

11-11-2003, 03:48 PM	#16
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	I always read stuff in published order, and I advise reading the HoME in that order. Every book gives referrences to a book that came before it, so as not to get confused or miss something I say read them in order. Between Letters and HoME, I would read Letters after the HoME or after Vol. 11, that way you have an idea of where Tolkien is at in his writtings that he talks about in his letters. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

11-13-2003, 10:00 AM	#17
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	If you haven't bought something yet, here's another suggestion: I found the Entmoot site from another - a bunch of articles at a place called Suite 101. Here's a link: http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/tolkien/1-20 There are almost 140 essays - the first 130 or so written by a guy named Michael Martinez, who seems to know his stuff (not to slam the newer author, who is still "finding his voice" I think). All kinds of topics, so you can look around and get all kinds of info and opinion. Plus, the benefit of zero financial outlay...

11-13-2003, 02:05 PM	#18
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I'm gonna go with the crowd and say: Get Letters. It's a spectacular insight into the man behind the myth, and the making of the myth itself. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 11-13-2003 at 02:17 PM.

11-13-2003, 10:06 PM	#20
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	I think I am going to forego "Letters" until I read all of his works, especially the one's that interest me the most. I think I am gonna get that Map book and get the first few from HoME and go on through the HoME series Thanks for the insight everyone :P P.S. Good to see ya SGH __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

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