Good, Better, Best . . .

[webwizard333]

Looking at the long debates of which is better-book or movie, I wonder if a definitive answer can be reached as it is merely a matter of taste, and taste is subjective. Personally, I much prefer the books (and I possess an Official Always Right card), but that doesn't mean Black Breathalizer and the "Legolas is hot!" faction are wrong. One can't really say that their views on art are right and that someone else's are wrong simply if they are in disagreement. For me, I can't imagine not enjoying the books more, but I'd imagine its the same for the other side.
Any other thoughts?

[zinnite]

I'll always enjoy the books far more than the films, but I also enjoy reading more than anything else. I do love the films, though, and the only aspect in which I think they are "better" is that I can watch them anytime, over and over, in a short time span. I takes me a week or two to read LOTR, but when I need that instant gratification, the films are there.

And I don't think I've ever heard anyone say the films are better, but I could have missed it.

[Elfhelm]

I can't imagine not enjoying the books more. But I LIKE the movies.

I do believe that good, better, and best are subjective judgements, but I also believe the only truth is subjective. To me, it is obvious if one poem is better than another because I think it and that's what it's all about. If I had been one of the writers of the screenplay I would have done some things differently.

I started a thread here called What Would You Do Differently? Most of the replies began "I wouldn't have [fill in the blank]." That's no response at all. I never asked what they wouldn't have done, I asked what they would have done. But that assumes people actual were willing to think a little, I guess.

So in my opinion, the people who made the movie labored hard and long and did their best, whereas the detractors sat in armchairs giving themselves airs.

But while I think I could have done better, I know that I didn't.

[jerseydevil]

I don't look at it as which one is better or best. It would go with out saying that the BOOK is the only official Lord of the Rings. My problems with the movies are that too much was changed than had to be in my opinion.

Some of it was just stupid changes that had nothing to do with the storyline (Arwen's key role in the Flight to the Ford), unnecessary plot changes (Aragorn denying his heritage)- some of it was a downright slap in the face ot Tolkien (burping after eating Lembas).

So my feeling is that only the books are the best - of course if you like high paced action films and stupid hollywood cliches (which I don't mind in other movies) then I assume you will like the movie the best. The books are more about the interaction between the characters and the key aspect of the ring and the quest to Mt Doom. The movies are more geared toward the action and the battles. If you don't agree - look at how long Frodo had a role in Two Towers versus how much time was spent on Helms Deep.

If Jackson didn't throw in the ridiculous kidnapping of Frodo - there would have been even less of Frodo, But of course Jackson had to spice up Frodo's trek into Mordor lest the small minded movie goers got bored and bogged down with intelligent thoughts. Jackson brought out none of the suspense of Frodo trying to find his way into Mordor that is in the book.

[zinnite]

Book-to-film adaptations rarely live up to the printed word, so I had pretty low expectations regarding the films. Given that, I was mostly impressed with what Jackson did, though I do share many of the same complaints as JD (as well as others I haven't seen mentioned yet).

I think the screen writers did a good job, but they also completely messed up some important stuff. And while I understand why some things were changed/omitted/butchered, it still doesn't make things any better.

In the end, I still love the films and watch them regularly, but they'll never come close to being anything other than a loose adaptation of Tolkien's work. So, as subjective an opinion as it may be, Tolkien's LOTR is indeed better.

[hectorberlioz]

Despite the flaws, I like the lotr movies a lot. I think they are more than above average. They just differ from the books too much to be good.
Thats my final word on this.

[paulbaggins]

I think that comparing the movies to the books is not a lot of use . In as much as if they made an act for act version of the books the movies would be 6 hours each and dreadfully boring.
So hats off to Peter Jackson and lets hope the next movie is as good as first 2 have been

[Elf Girl]

I enjoyed the movies, but I enjoyed them for the cheasy action movies that IMO they are.

However, for BB the movies can be better than the books. I don't really care.

I do care when he asserts that they are universally better because he, the Voice of Truth, says so, and that 'in our hearts' we believe he is right.

[Black Breathalizer]

I guess the only way some of you people here feel you have any hope of scoring a point against me and my ironclad arguements is to spout falsehoods.

For the umpteenth time:

1. I love Tolkien's books.

2. I love Jackson's films.

3. I think Jackson improved the story in places. But nothing can replace the richness and detail of the books.

4. The two compliment each other beautifully.

5. I don't suffer fools well and that explains why I have vigorously defended Jackson here against the whinings of the clueless.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I guess the only way some of you people here feel you have any hope of scoring a point against me and my ironclad arguements is to spout falsehoods.

It's amazing how many falsehoods you spout out about others though.

5. I don't suffer fools well and that explains why I have vigorously defended Jackson here against the whinings of the clueless.

It is truly amazing then you are even able to live with yourself then. Why do you even feel it is necessary to "defend" Jackson? Just because you like them - doesn't mean that everyone else should. I personally don't care for the movies - foir the reasons I have stated. Your opinions don't mean **** to me. Everything I have stated are valid complaints - and I'm not the only one that has those complaints.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer (who else?)
"1. I love Tolkien's books.

2. I love Jackson's films.

3. I think Jackson improved the story in places. But nothing can replace the richness and detail of the books.

4. The two compliment each other beautifully.

5. I don't suffer fools well and that explains why I have vigorously defended Jackson here against the whinings of the clueless."
_________________________________________________
It's a pity you sometimes go to extremes, especially ridiculing those who disagree with you, since you make some valid points.

For my part, I would amend your quote above to:

1. I love Tolkien's books.

2. I like Jackson's films.

3. I think Jackson improved the story in places and made it worse in places.. But nothing can replace the richness and detail of the books.

4. The two compliment each other to some extent.

5. Nothing. (no need to put down those you disagree with).

Really, your arguments would be stronger without putdowns.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I don't suffer fools well and that explains why I have vigorously defended Jackson here against the whinings of the clueless.

See? This is exactly what I'm talking about. I can handle the fact that you have a different opinion than me, and accept that you are an intelligent human being, despite the disagreement. But anyone who disagrees with you is a 'fool' and 'clueless', and their arguements are 'whines'. The fact that you are demeaning to people with different opinions makes you difficult to be around.

[Elfhelm]

/me gives Elf Girl some water in the corner. That's right. You stand your ground! Disagreeing is one thing, insulting people while disagreeing is childish. *ding!* Now get in there and give him what-for!

[Earniel]

Letting the ladies fight yer fights for you, aren't you, Elfhelm? Tsssk, don't let Théoden ever hear that or he'll demote you from Marshal to simple soldier.

[Elfhelm]

yikes!

[cassiopeia]

I love both the books and the movies, but the books are and always will be better, IMO. The movies are wonderful, but I do acknowledge there are many instances where they have ruined scenes or added scenes that are very poor. But everybody can have their own opinion. If somebody says the movies are better, even though I strongly disagree, I'll accept that. I don't think anybody would say that here, after all we're a board dedicated to the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, not PJ.

Go Elf Girl!

[Cassius]

This is my opinion:

1. The LOTR books rock the literary house

2. The movies have outdone any previous attempts at making Tolkien's writing visual.

3. A whole lot of work and effort was put into making the movies and that should be appreciated. However, a whole lot more work was put into creating the books, which are the foundation of everything that PJ has done.

4. Tolkien totally redefined the way fantasy novels were and are written, and the movies help that by providing the basic story for the average joes of reading to inspire them to read the books and find the true genius behind it.

5. People have the right to their own opinion. The simple truth is that no one will ever be perfectly resolved on anything and that people have the right to defend their opinion against those that dissagree.

6. I am not saying that Peter Jackson deserves all of the credit for LOTR as a whole. He has repeatedly publicly announced that the credit belongs to Tolkien alone. People need to stop trashing and critisizing him and calling him the destroyer of great literature because he is not.

to be continued...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by ????? ????????????

"6. I am not saying that Peter Jackson deserves all of the credit for LOTR as a whole. He has repeatedly publicly announced that the credit belongs to Tolkien alone. People need to stop trashing and critisizing him and calling him the destroyer of great literature because he is not."
________________________________________________

Exactly who has called him the destroyer of great literature? I think the concensus of opinion is that he did a good, but flawed, job. One that could have been better, showed considerable care, but could have been improved upon.

For my part, I feared the project would be a poor effort, with a marking grade for the movies overall of "D' at best. Partly due to the work of Fran Walsh and P. Boyens, I give it so far, an "A-" for FOTR and a "C+" for TT. ROTK will, hopefully, overcome the lapses in TT (that is, from the exorcism on, the first hour was of higher quality).

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
...I give it so far, an "A-" for FOTR and a "C+" for TT. ROTK will, hopefully, overcome the lapses in TT (that is, from the exorcism on, the first hour was of higher quality).

I agree with an A for the Xed of FotR and maybe a B- for TTT Same evaluation... It's as though they started running out of time after the first hour of film's worth of editing and started throwing it together. I'd guive the first hour and A+ and the rest a C-.

From the previews of the Xed of TTT it appears that much of the clipped feeling of the theatrical release was due to anticipated additions. We'll know soon.

Oh yeah...

Loved the book

Like the movies

Jackson made some parts better for film rather than stay within rigid limits while adding other parts than made me cringe ("If you want him..." and "Toss me!")

Kudos for all those who respect other' rights to have differing opinions.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Originally posted by ????? ????????????

I love the question marks. Do you think BB understood it?

Exactly who has called him the destroyer of great literature? I think the concensus of opinion is that he did a good, but flawed, job. One that could have been better, showed considerable care, but could have been improved upon.

Well you know how BB - er I mean Cassius - likes to exaggerate what others say concerning the movies versus the books.