News of the Entwives?

[TopazJedi]

I was just reading through my Tolkien Compass when i read about a referance to ents made by Sam. So i went back and read it, and it said "But what about these Tree-men, these giants, as you might call them? They do say that one bigger than a tree was seen up away beyond North Moors not long back" Then I had an epiphany! Maybe they were the Entwives! As Treebeard said, the entwives would have liked the Shire. Am i just late on the uptake, has this been discussed before?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yeah. There are some other threads around that discuss the Entwives. It's been awhile though, so I'll leave this one open.

[Attalus]

Well not to be a cold water tosser, but they did say "tree-men." I think the Entwives were destroyed with their gardens, which Sauron destroyed, in the Second Age, I think. Wouldn't the Rangers and Wood-Elves like Gildor Inglorion have known if Ents had existed on the North Moors or its environs?

[Bombadillo]

Hmmm... bigger than a tree. I guess that could make sense if I want it to. But I've always pictured the entwives as looking like small trees, not big. I thought they could be mistaken for dogwood, or maybe willow if they style their hair nicely.?

But that's just me, not Tolkien. You might be right TJ.

sarcasm-> Glad to help clear it up.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Attalus
Wouldn't the Rangers and Wood-Elves like Gildor Inglorion have known if Ents had existed on the North Moors or its environs?

No, I don't think so. When Gandalf mentions them, Aragorn says he thought they were only a legend, which tells me that while there obviously were ents there, they were "tree-like" enough that they weren't noticed (except by those few very lucky and observant hobbits!). Certainly it was an ent, which would absolutely look like a giant to a hobbit! A "Tree-man" would be an apt description of an ent by a hobbit, no? But an entwife -- there's no telling. I'd like to think yes, and it is possible (do you really think a surprised hobbit would be able to tell if it were male or female?), but I have a feeling that they were already gone.

[Sheeana]

Tolkien's Letters #144
I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin. They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult -- unless experience of industrialised and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know.

[Alqualaure]

Hmm... I've had the same thought, Topaz!

I haven't read Tolkien's Letters myself, and I've always liked to imagine that the Ent spotted beyond the North Moors was indeed an Entwife. I agree with Azalea that likely a hobbit would be so surprised to see "a tree walking" that they'd not notice the gender... I know I certainly wouldn't myself!

Would an Entwife appear "feminine" to those unfamiliar with the species? After all, it is difficult for outsiders to notice female dwarves... why not Ents as well?

[Attalus]

It has always been my impression that the Entwives were much smaller than the Ents, resembling bushes or fruit-trees. But, this is mere speculation.

[Alqualaure]

It has always been my impression that the Entwives were much smaller than the Ents, resembling bushes or fruit-trees. But, this is mere speculation.

Attalus - what lead you to this idea? (Just curious!) I mean, was it a passage you read, or just your own idea?

I'd not thought much about it before - the appearance of the Entwives... I just assumed they'd be quite similar to the Ents. But this is a very interesting idea! I like it!

Still, a hobbit would be quite astounded at the sight of what they'd think of as a "tree walking", right? (I'd certainly be struck speechless if any of my crepe myrtles decided to take a stroll one evening... ROFL!)

On a nearly completely unrelated note, I've got to add that this thread has made me think of "the Knight Bus" of the Harry Potter books - houses, trees, and post boxes hopping out of the way of the nearly blind and very bad bus driver - can't say I blame them! Anyone else have this same wacky thought?!?

Alqua

[Claenoic]

I think hobbits have a talent of exaggerating a tale, if only for attention with some pals at a pub. Hey, that's just me though. ^^

[Brimstone]

I don't now much, but I think if the Entwives went to the Shire that the Elves of Rivindell would have seen them. I heard that some of the Entwives might have been captured by Sauron and by unknown processes turned into trolls that in the ROTK could withstand the sunlight. I've thought that some of the Entwives would have fled to the south and lived there.

[Bridgette]

I'd like to think that the entwives went to the Shire and the area's around it. If they had, maybe the skirted Rivendell or something. And maybe they then grew tree-ish so the appeared to be normal trees (and maybe they where roused by the news of Sauron coming again?). I'm not really sure. Since Tolkien never stated where the entwives went (if any had indeed survived), I could just continue to make assumptions. I don't know.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Alqualaure
I'd not thought much about it before - the appearance of the Entwives... I just assumed they'd be quite similar to the Ents. But this is a very interesting idea! I like it!

For the Entwives were bent and browned by their labour; their hair parched by the sun to the hue of ripe corn and their cheeks like red apples. Yet their eyes were still the eyes of our own people. (Treebeard: TTT)

[Anadriewen]

I think that when Sam said that he heard that someone saw a "tree man " it could'v been an Entwife. Hobbits haven't heard of ents or entwifes before so how are they supposed to no the difference between an ent or an entwife. Merry and Pippin didn't know what ents were when they met Treebeard, so how would any other hobbit no what an ent is? So I don't know for sure but i think that it migh'tv been an entife in the forest.

[The Dunedain]

This may have been said already, but I have 2 thoughts.

1) In The Old Forest, the trees are "alive" it is possible that the Entwives, in their obbsession to settle down, became tree like and that is why they are gone. Or perhaps they are the old forest.

2) If an elf saw an ent, knowing them, they would keep it too themselves (assuming that the ents and elves are on speaking terms, I think Treebeard said they wern't). If a Ranger saw an ent, even he (like Aaragorn, cheif of the Rangers/ Dunedain) wouldn't know what it was.

[The Dunedain]

Also, I think Tolkei would like to keep the fate of the entwives a mystery because it adds to the sadness of the ents.

[Cirdan]

Entwives... can't live with 'em...

I wondered previously about Sam's report of "Tree-men" were possibly entwives but I now think they were just the ents themselves wandering about ME. There is no reason they would always be confined to Fangorn. Maybe it was just a preview of things to come or a vehicle to show Sam's interest in the exotic and, as would follow, his added motivation for being in the fellowship.

[entss89]

Originally posted by The Dunedain
Also, I think Tolkei would like to keep the fate of the entwives a mystery because it adds to the sadness of the ents.

yes and its a lot more fun to run with our imagination.

[bropous]

I had always taken this sighting of a "tree-man" in the shire as an Ent out looking for traces of the entwives. I don't have any passage to back up my assertion, that's just what my mind conjured up from that bit.

I've always thought, again without any real back-up from the texts, that some of the entwives had been captured by Sauron's minions and subjected to cruel and unspeakable cross-breeding which resulted in the Olog-Hai.

[An aside: Isn't it fascinating, the concept of the East beyond Mordor and Rhun?]

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Attalus
Well not to be a cold water tosser, but they did say "tree-men." I think the Entwives were destroyed with their gardens, which Sauron destroyed, in the Second Age, I think. Wouldn't the Rangers and Wood-Elves like Gildor Inglorion have known if Ents had existed on the North Moors or its environs?

I don't think the "tree-men" part is that important. If you fleetingly saw a moving tree in the forest, would you be able to tell its gender, especially if you have never seen an Ent or an Entwife before?

I think it's possible, though unlikely, that some of the Entwives survived.

If this is true, the obvious question is why wouldn't they go back to Fangorn, even if it was just to stop by and say "Hey guys, were not all dead."

Bropus: I think your idea is more likely. And I am also fascinated by parts of Middle-earth that weren't explored in the books.