Aldarion and Erendis

Artanis · 02-11-2003, 03:14 PM

OK, here's the thread to talk about the story of Aldarion and Erendis. It's a rather sad story about their relationship and their marraige, but also a story about the beginning of the decline of the Numenoreans that eventually led to their fall.

But about their marriage: Aldarion and Erendis did love each other, and yet their marriage ends in catastrophy. Why did it happen? Were they victims of circumstance? Were they too different? Did they ever have a chance to be happy together? What do you think?

Arien the Maia · 02-11-2003, 04:23 PM

I think that Erendis just wanted to spend some time with Aldarion. I mean he was never there...always sailing. She even says to him that she is not of the line of Elros and will not live as long. So in the end I think the marriage falls apart because of Aldarion's decisions.

Kirinki54 · 02-11-2003, 06:09 PM

That story is on one level a real tragic story of two very proud and stubborn people without a will to compromise or even communicate with intent of understanding.
At another level we can see the flaws and weaknesses of the Numenoreans from an internal perspective, ultimately leading to their doom. IMHO Sauron was a catalyst, but the end result might have been similar without him.

Falagar · 02-11-2003, 06:17 PM

I think they were too different and proud, Aldarion loved the sea, while Erendis loved the woods.

Quote:

I think that Erendis just wanted to spend some time with Aldarion. I mean he was never there...always sailing. She even says to him that she is not of the line of Elros and will not live as long. So in the end I think the marriage falls apart because of Aldarion's decisions.

But he loved the sea (can you blame him?

), and that feeling was too hard for him to supress. It even sometimes seemed like his love for the sea was greater than his love for her.

Artanis · 02-11-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54
That story is on one level a real tragic story of two very proud and stubborn people without a will to compromise or even communicate with intent of understanding.

But I think they were communicating to begin with, and they did give in to each other. Aldarion at one time intended to forsake the Sea and live with Erendis away from the coast. Erendis gave Aldarion leave to to away sailing, as she saw how he yearned. But at some point things turned, and after that there seemed to be no way back.

Quote:

At another level we can see the flaws and weaknesses of the Numenoreans from an internal perspective, ultimately leading to their doom. IMHO Sauron was a catalyst, but the end result might have been similar without him.

That's certainly a gloomy view of Men. Nonetheless it may be true. It seems like Men would not be content with living peacefully in bliss.

Artanis · 02-11-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
It even sometimes seemed like his love for the sea was greater than his love for her.

I'm sure it was. Perhaps he would not have married at all if he hadn't been under pressure to produce an heir. Erendis saw it clearly when she said "I will not share my husband with the Lady Uinen".

DÃºnedain · 02-11-2003, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54

At another level we can see the flaws and weaknesses of the Numenoreans from an internal perspective

I think the true weakness of the Numenoreans is that the line of Elros was betrayed of the right to the sceptre when it was accepted that Pharazon rule, even though it was rightfully Queen MÃ*riel's and the true heir to Tar-Palantir who was usurped...

Arien the Maia · 02-11-2003, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
I think they were too different and proud, Aldarion loved the sea, while Erendis loved the woods.

But he loved the sea (can you blame him? ), and that feeling was too hard for him to supress. It even sometimes seemed like his love for the sea was greater than his love for her.

But then why did he marry her if he showed greater love for something else?

Falagar · 02-12-2003, 05:08 PM

Because you can't marry the sea, and (like Artanis said) he needed an heir

***RÃan*** · 02-12-2003, 08:15 PM

Good points, Kirinki and DÃºnedain. I don't read that story very much, because I get so frustrated! I want to jump into the story and haul them both to a marriage counselor! And what their inability to compromise did to their daughter was inexcusable, IMO. If they didn't have a child, I wouldn't have been so frustrated with them.

***Earniel*** · 02-13-2003, 06:01 AM

Yes, it is such a sad story. Especially the ending is so sad. After all these years, she finally decides to see Aldarion again and then she dies, rather ironically in water.

Quote:

There, it seems, she met her fate; but only the words 'Erendis perished in water in the year 985' remain to suggest how it came to pass.

This last line puzzled me for a long time. I wonder how in the end it happened.

Lalaith · 03-02-2003, 12:53 PM

I love the story of Aldarion and Erendis, but it is really sad. It was really hard when Erendis didn't le Aldarion sleep in their bed. But the most mistakes were made by Aldarion.

Arien the Maia · 03-02-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
I love the story of Aldarion and Erendis, but it is really sad. It was really hard when Erendis didn't le Aldarion sleep in their bed. But the most mistakes were made by Aldarion.

I love that story too...it's one of my favorite stories that Tolkien wrote. Every time I read it I almost cry

Ruinel · 03-02-2003, 05:56 PM

I wrote this in another thread. But really, it belongs here. So, here is my opinion about Aldarion and Erendis.

Aldarion was a little boy in a man's body. He never should have married Erendis, knowing that he would either have to give up sailing off to ME and Gil-galad or give up her love for him. What did he expect? That she would pine for him at home waiting for his return ("Oh, where could he be? I'll just sit here and waste my life away pining for my man." - whatever!). And that she should welcome his abandonment like she deserved it? What a twit!

And Erendis should have known better. They both made mistakes. He loved to sail off on new adventures. She hated the sea. Hello? Anybody home? Either learn to love the sea, Erendis, or move on.

Wow, that's a match made for doom if ever there was one. At the very least, they made a beautiful daughter out of the union.

***Earniel*** · 03-02-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Wow, that's a match made for doom if ever there was one. At the very least, they made a beautiful daughter out of the union.

A daughter that was screwed as well IMO. Beautiful, yeah perhaps she was, but normal no. AncalimÃ« bore the scars of the onesided education by her mother and the absence of her father during her growing-up. And she grew up to a pretty unlikeable person. There was no love between her and her husband and she was feared by her granddaughters. Not exactly a model family that one.

Ruinel · 03-02-2003, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EÃ¤rniel
A daughter that was screwed as well IMO. Beautiful, yeah perhaps she was, but normal no. AncalimÃ« bore the scars of the onesided education by her mother and the absence of her father during her growing-up. And she grew up to a pretty unlikeable person. There was no love between her and her husband and she was feared by her granddaughters. Not exactly a model family that one.

Well, I was trying to be nice... add an upbeat note to the tale. But you are right. Totally disfunctional family.

***Earniel*** · 03-02-2003, 06:25 PM

Sorry, I don't know why I'm in such a sarcastic mood today.

I wonder whether Tolkien was trying to give a little lesson in morale with the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis. I felt disaprovement of the match between Erendis and Aldarion from the beginning of the tale. The emphasis on the differences between them: the fact that Erendis came of a 'lesser' bloodline, the sea versus wood argument, their stalling of the engagement, etc.... It looked pretty obvious that it would turn out bad in the end.

Ruinel · 03-02-2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EÃ¤rniel
Sorry, I don't know why I'm in such a sarcastic mood today.

I wonder whether Tolkien was trying to give a little lesson in morale with the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis. I felt disaprovement of the match between Erendis and Aldarion from the beginning of the tale. The emphasis on the differences between them: the fact that Erendis came of a 'lesser' bloodline, the sea versus wood argument, their stalling of the engagement, etc.... It looked pretty obvious that it would turn out bad in the end.

Yes, I got the same impression about the story. It was doomed from the start. Why Erendis didn't date around with other guys I'll never really understand. They were very different in their minds, and that is what brought their relationship down.

Lalaith · 03-03-2003, 01:05 PM

I always thought that things might turn out good in the end, but there wasn't really a happy end.
I think it should not have been a problem that Erendis had not the same blood like Aldarion. And yes, maybe they shouldn't have married. Didn't they see that coming in the beginning, they knew that they were very different.

olsonm · 03-03-2003, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
Why Erendis didn't date around with other guys I'll never really understand.

Because that would have killed the story. It's a tragedy.

02-11-2003, 03:14 PM	#1
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with FÃ«anor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Aldarion and Erendis OK, here's the thread to talk about the story of Aldarion and Erendis. It's a rather sad story about their relationship and their marraige, but also a story about the beginning of the decline of the Numenoreans that eventually led to their fall. But about their marriage: Aldarion and Erendis did love each other, and yet their marriage ends in catastrophy. Why did it happen? Were they victims of circumstance? Were they too different? Did they ever have a chance to be happy together? What do you think? __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

02-11-2003, 06:09 PM	#3
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	That story is on one level a real tragic story of two very proud and stubborn people without a will to compromise or even communicate with intent of understanding. At another level we can see the flaws and weaknesses of the Numenoreans from an internal perspective, ultimately leading to their doom. IMHO Sauron was a catalyst, but the end result might have been similar without him. __________________ 'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'

02-12-2003, 05:08 PM	#9
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Because you can't marry the sea, and (like Artanis said) he needed an heir __________________ FÃ«anor - Innocence incarnated Still, AikanÃ¡ro 'till the Last battle.

02-12-2003, 08:15 PM	#10
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Good points, Kirinki and DÃºnedain. I don't read that story very much, because I get so frustrated! I want to jump into the story and haul them both to a marriage counselor! And what their inability to compromise did to their daughter was inexcusable, IMO. If they didn't have a child, I wouldn't have been so frustrated with them. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

03-02-2003, 12:53 PM	#12
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I love the story of Aldarion and Erendis, but it is really sad. It was really hard when Erendis didn't le Aldarion sleep in their bed. But the most mistakes were made by Aldarion. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

02-11-2003, 04:23 PM	#2
Arien the Maia FÃ«anÃ¡ro's Fire Mistress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,423	I think that Erendis just wanted to spend some time with Aldarion. I mean he was never there...always sailing. She even says to him that she is not of the line of Elros and will not live as long. So in the end I think the marriage falls apart because of Aldarion's decisions.

03-02-2003, 05:56 PM	#14
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	I wrote this in another thread. But really, it belongs here. So, here is my opinion about Aldarion and Erendis. Aldarion was a little boy in a man's body. He never should have married Erendis, knowing that he would either have to give up sailing off to ME and Gil-galad or give up her love for him. What did he expect? That she would pine for him at home waiting for his return ("Oh, where could he be? I'll just sit here and waste my life away pining for my man." - whatever!). And that she should welcome his abandonment like she deserved it? What a twit! And Erendis should have known better. They both made mistakes. He loved to sail off on new adventures. She hated the sea. Hello? Anybody home? Either learn to love the sea, Erendis, or move on. Wow, that's a match made for doom if ever there was one. At the very least, they made a beautiful daughter out of the union.

03-02-2003, 06:25 PM	#17
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Sorry, I don't know why I'm in such a sarcastic mood today. I wonder whether Tolkien was trying to give a little lesson in morale with the Tale of Aldarion and Erendis. I felt disaprovement of the match between Erendis and Aldarion from the beginning of the tale. The emphasis on the differences between them: the fact that Erendis came of a 'lesser' bloodline, the sea versus wood argument, their stalling of the engagement, etc.... It looked pretty obvious that it would turn out bad in the end. __________________ We are not things.

03-03-2003, 01:05 PM	#19
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I always thought that things might turn out good in the end, but there wasn't really a happy end. I think it should not have been a problem that Erendis had not the same blood like Aldarion. And yes, maybe they shouldn't have married. Didn't they see that coming in the beginning, they knew that they were very different. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.