Arwen at Helm's Deep.......

Dúnedain · 01-18-2003, 08:22 PM

I was over at theonering.net the other day and came across this article. Check this out, maybe this will tie in some gaps for what we think might happen in RotK as far as Arwen coming to Aragorn goes....

------

Was Arwen At Helm's Deep?
Demosthenes @ 4:25 pm EST

Council of Elrond regular Fran recently did a bit of screencapping from a Two Towers bootleg. She discovered something interesting.

It appears that WETA missed a few shots of Arwen at Helm's Deep, and that if you look closely enough - and freezeframe an awful lot - you can probably spot her in the final charge.

Here's the proof. We think.

http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5819

http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5820

http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5818

----------

Well there are some pics of her and what was found.....

Shadowfax · 01-19-2003, 12:48 AM

Well, from what I understand, those pics you posted with "arwen" in them are just there because that was their original plan, to have her in the battle, but then (thankfully!) they took her out, so I don't really see what you're trying to say...?

Dúnedain · 01-19-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Well, from what I understand, those pics you posted with "arwen" in them are just there because that was their original plan, to have her in the battle, but then (thankfully!) they took her out, so I don't really see what you're trying to say...?

Actually that's not true, I have a copy of TTT, downloaded it last week, and I found this scene in it. What they said in that article is that there is a scene where you can actually see Arwen, which I have as well once I found the part and went slow looking. I mean it looks just like her, and you can see it in the pics they made, it isn't something from an original plan, it is actually in the movie we all saw....

Black Breathalizer · 01-19-2003, 09:24 AM

It's just an illusion, Dúnedain.

All those damn elves just look alike.

***azalea*** · 01-19-2003, 03:11 PM

So do you think that's where she was going when she left Rivendell? Did they make her one of the elves that came w/ Haldir, and she just stayed in disguise or something? If it is supposed to be part of the movie and wasn't an idea they abandoned, I wonder how it will be addressed in RotK. It would be better for them just to have her show up w/ the banner in Gondor at her appointed time!

Artanis · 01-19-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
It would be better for them just to have her show up w/ the banner in Gondor at her appointed time!

And replace Halbarad.

***azalea*** · 01-19-2003, 03:43 PM

Actually I meant under the silver banner at the end with all the elven-folk -- sorry to be unclear. But you're right, they may do it that way. In fact, it's probable, if the rumors of her bringing Narsil are correct.

Dúnedain · 01-19-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azalea
So do you think that's where she was going when she left Rivendell? Did they make her one of the elves that came w/ Haldir, and she just stayed in disguise or something? If it is supposed to be part of the movie and wasn't an idea they abandoned, I wonder how it will be addressed in RotK. It would be better for them just to have her show up w/ the banner in Gondor at her appointed time!

Actually, that's the weird thing. She wasn't with the elves, she came down with Gandalf and the Rohirrim, as she was on horse back during that sequence....

From what I read, Halbarad is not in it at all

And Elrohir & Elladan will be replaced by Legalos

Evenstar1400 · 01-19-2003, 07:11 PM

between the time the elves arrived and the battle began, when would arwen get the chance to give aragorn narsil? he was around people at all times.

Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn · 01-19-2003, 08:11 PM

intresting

Dúnedain · 01-19-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evenstar1400
between the time the elves arrived and the battle began, when would arwen get the chance to give aragorn narsil? he was around people at all times.

huh? I never said she showed up with the elves, read above and you will see the light my child

Kalimac · 01-20-2003, 01:59 AM

The three images above are not the only Arwen remnants or evidence that was found . . there are other images . . Initially, Legolas is the only one who shown with a white horse . . however when Theoden, Aragorn, Legolas and company storm out of Helms Deep . . well, check out the following pictures:

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/...enhorsett1.jpg
The charge from Helms Deep shows Legolas on his white horse . . but wait . .

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwenttt3.jpg
There now are TWO similar riders on white horses . . is one a digitally reworked Arwen?

And, here are a couple spoiler pictures from a year or two ago . .

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/kalimac/arwenhd.jpg
Early Arwen at Helms Deep

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwentthd.jpg
Another shot of Arwen at HD

Compare them to this recent screen cap from The Two Towers:
http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwenhdtt.jpg
Arwen fighting at Helms Deep

Remember that this is just a curiosity . . these are remnants of scenes with Arwen . . PJ changed the script to exclude her and chose to try and remove her digitally . . he just didn't get all of her taken out. That's all. Anyway, I hope it doesn't mean she arrived in disguise with the elves and just pops up . . . nah, this is just a curiosity. All the remnants in the future will probably be removed . . when the DVD/video is released she will be totally erased.

WallRocker · 01-20-2003, 10:10 AM

Maybe it's just my computer, Dúnedain, but those pics look awfully blurry

I'm just thankful that they dicided not to put Arwen in at Helm's Deep

Melkor's significant othe · 01-20-2003, 10:24 AM

Worse still is the thought, that she's in disguise with the soldiers and she ends up playing the 'Dernhelm' role and kills the WiKi !!
Shocking - don't do it PJ!

Lalaith · 01-23-2003, 02:41 PM

I felt like screaming when I read on a site, that PJ had filmed Arwen at Helms Deep. Fortunately he decided just right and took her out of that parts. (but she can be seen, if you look close enough)

LuthienTinuviel · 01-23-2003, 02:53 PM

yea, arwen was supposed to stay with a rohan woman named morwen when everyone else was at HD, then shewould somehow sneak away to HD adnd fight...
im so glad that he changed his mind.

heehee, BB, you should be happy, PJ has moved up from "utterly detestable" to "almost likeable" on my scale!

squinteyedsoutherner · 01-23-2003, 03:50 PM

Does anyone know if the elves that were leaving Rivendell with the lanterns were originally the elves that arrive at Helm's deep? When Arwen looks back at Elrond in that scene Elrond looks angry, not relieved that his daughter is leaving. Both groups are wearing hoods of some dark colour. That would also explain why Haldir is added via special effects to the arriving group of elves at the Hornburg, although he was in that battle in "real footage", was perhaps Arwen the original lead elf? Were the lanterns that were held by those elves in Rivendell originally something else, like banners, but were changed (with fx) when the scenes were reworked? was the scene of the elves leaving Rivendell meant to be the response to Galadriels speech? Why else would Galadriel be trying to persuade Elrond?

Or am I just smokin' too much?

Shadowfax · 01-23-2003, 04:31 PM

Wow, that's a really good point, I'd never thought of it like that before. Could have been like that.

durin's bane · 01-23-2003, 08:36 PM

I'm not really sure. From what I can remember, I thought Arwen and Elrond were in Rivendell having their little chat about death and stuff while the battle of Helm's Deep was going on.

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-23-2003, 08:46 PM

Well, the Elves were moving awfully slow to get to Helm's Deep in time for the battle.

And about Elrond...He always looks angry.

01-18-2003, 08:22 PM	#1
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Arwen at Helm's Deep....... I was over at theonering.net the other day and came across this article. Check this out, maybe this will tie in some gaps for what we think might happen in RotK as far as Arwen coming to Aragorn goes.... ------ Was Arwen At Helm's Deep? Demosthenes @ 4:25 pm EST Council of Elrond regular Fran recently did a bit of screencapping from a Two Towers bootleg. She discovered something interesting. It appears that WETA missed a few shots of Arwen at Helm's Deep, and that if you look closely enough - and freezeframe an awful lot - you can probably spot her in the final charge. Here's the proof. We think. http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5819 http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5820 http://www.theonering.net/movie/scrapbook/large/5818 ---------- Well there are some pics of her and what was found..... __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

01-19-2003, 12:48 AM	#2
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	Well, from what I understand, those pics you posted with "arwen" in them are just there because that was their original plan, to have her in the battle, but then (thankfully!) they took her out, so I don't really see what you're trying to say...? __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

01-19-2003, 07:11 PM	#9
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	between the time the elves arrived and the battle began, when would arwen get the chance to give aragorn narsil? he was around people at all times. __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

01-19-2003, 08:11 PM	#10
Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn The Elven Queen Of All Pyros Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Im like a little bug stuck in the lamp...never going anywhere Posts: 795	intresting __________________ Would you judge my future based on what i did in the past? Procrastinators Unite!!!.....tomorrrow.... Kids in backseats cause accidents...accidents in backseats cause kids As long as there are tests..there will be prayers in school

01-20-2003, 01:59 AM	#12
Kalimac Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 81	Sigh The three images above are not the only Arwen remnants or evidence that was found . . there are other images . . Initially, Legolas is the only one who shown with a white horse . . however when Theoden, Aragorn, Legolas and company storm out of Helms Deep . . well, check out the following pictures: http://www.imagemagician.org/images/...enhorsett1.jpg The charge from Helms Deep shows Legolas on his white horse . . but wait . . http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwenttt3.jpg There now are TWO similar riders on white horses . . is one a digitally reworked Arwen? And, here are a couple spoiler pictures from a year or two ago . . http://www.imagemagician.org/images/kalimac/arwenhd.jpg Early Arwen at Helms Deep http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwentthd.jpg Another shot of Arwen at HD Compare them to this recent screen cap from The Two Towers: http://www.imagemagician.org/images/.../arwenhdtt.jpg Arwen fighting at Helms Deep Remember that this is just a curiosity . . these are remnants of scenes with Arwen . . PJ changed the script to exclude her and chose to try and remove her digitally . . he just didn't get all of her taken out. That's all. Anyway, I hope it doesn't mean she arrived in disguise with the elves and just pops up . . . nah, this is just a curiosity. All the remnants in the future will probably be removed . . when the DVD/video is released she will be totally erased. Last edited by Kalimac : 01-20-2003 at 02:07 AM.

01-19-2003, 09:24 AM	#4
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	It's just an illusion, Dúnedain. All those damn elves just look alike.

01-19-2003, 03:11 PM	#5
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	So do you think that's where she was going when she left Rivendell? Did they make her one of the elves that came w/ Haldir, and she just stayed in disguise or something? If it is supposed to be part of the movie and wasn't an idea they abandoned, I wonder how it will be addressed in RotK. It would be better for them just to have her show up w/ the banner in Gondor at her appointed time!

01-19-2003, 03:43 PM	#7
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Actually I meant under the silver banner at the end with all the elven-folk -- sorry to be unclear. But you're right, they may do it that way. In fact, it's probable, if the rumors of her bringing Narsil are correct.

01-20-2003, 10:10 AM	#13
WallRocker Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: At the computer... Posts: 376	Maybe it's just my computer, Dúnedain, but those pics look awfully blurry I'm just thankful that they dicided not to put Arwen in at Helm's Deep __________________ Do one thing every day that scares you ~Anonymous~ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><<>< <>< <>< <>< I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America And to the Republic for which it stands One nation UNDER GOD with liberty and justice for all

01-20-2003, 10:24 AM	#14
Melkor's significant othe Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK, Manchester Posts: 40	Worse still is the thought, that she's in disguise with the soldiers and she ends up playing the 'Dernhelm' role and kills the WiKi !! Shocking - don't do it PJ!

01-23-2003, 02:41 PM	#15
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I felt like screaming when I read on a site, that PJ had filmed Arwen at Helms Deep. Fortunately he decided just right and took her out of that parts. (but she can be seen, if you look close enough) __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

01-23-2003, 02:53 PM	#16
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	yea, arwen was supposed to stay with a rohan woman named morwen when everyone else was at HD, then shewould somehow sneak away to HD adnd fight... im so glad that he changed his mind. heehee, BB, you should be happy, PJ has moved up from "utterly detestable" to "almost likeable" on my scale! __________________

01-23-2003, 03:50 PM	#17
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	Does anyone know if the elves that were leaving Rivendell with the lanterns were originally the elves that arrive at Helm's deep? When Arwen looks back at Elrond in that scene Elrond looks angry, not relieved that his daughter is leaving. Both groups are wearing hoods of some dark colour. That would also explain why Haldir is added via special effects to the arriving group of elves at the Hornburg, although he was in that battle in "real footage", was perhaps Arwen the original lead elf? Were the lanterns that were held by those elves in Rivendell originally something else, like banners, but were changed (with fx) when the scenes were reworked? was the scene of the elves leaving Rivendell meant to be the response to Galadriels speech? Why else would Galadriel be trying to persuade Elrond? Or am I just smokin' too much?

01-23-2003, 04:31 PM	#18
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	Wow, that's a really good point, I'd never thought of it like that before. Could have been like that. __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

01-23-2003, 08:36 PM	#19
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	I'm not really sure. From what I can remember, I thought Arwen and Elrond were in Rivendell having their little chat about death and stuff while the battle of Helm's Deep was going on. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

01-23-2003, 08:46 PM	#20
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Well, the Elves were moving awfully slow to get to Helm's Deep in time for the battle. And about Elrond...He always looks angry. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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